Gems of War: The PVP trophy dilemma


#22

I always hit 57 moves.

Nice idea. I’d be happier if Treasure Hunt also gave experience.

@Sidousai To the OP: presumably you have set minimum weekly trophy targets? So…

  1. if you are hitting those easily, then you shouldn’t feel obligated to only do PvP thereafter - you can do the other play modes.

Otherwise, if you are struggling to hit the weekly targets, then you are setting them too high for your own ‘commitment’ to the game (awkward choice of word, but reflects RL duties / pressures, desire to play other games, etc), and you don’t really fit such a high performing guild, so either:

  1. your guild members recognise the time burden in managing / maintaining the guild, keeping records etc, and accept that you should have a lower target - in MatchMasters we had this situation with Serale as GL for quite some time and (I think) most members were fine with it

or

  1. you rein in your expectations and ambitions for the guild, and set targets you can achieve yourself, and recognise that your leaderboard performance won’t compete with the hardest of hardcore - and your more ambitious members might move on and up

or

  1. you recognise that the famous Celestial Peak guild has outgrown you, and step down as GL and join a medium tier guild yourself.

Otherwise that leaves you with:

  1. hope that @sirrian and the devs change the generation of trophies and the meaning of Guild to Guild competition… unsure that’s gonna happen… as much as I’d like to see trophies from TH and other game modes… trophies are a measure of PvP activity only, allus have been, so…

#23

@Annaerith @Sidousai

Musing on this further… intrigued by this ‘guild guys deserve more’ point… deserve what? the rather artificial sense of being higher up the trophy leaderboard… that you are ‘as good as’ the people who play obsessively hour on hour? or ‘as good as’ guilds like MatchMasters which has a year plus head start on the trophy total?

What people really get out of guilds is a mixture of stat and income bonuses, and then the rewards from tasks - this is driven by gold contributions, not by trophies…

…but maximum gold income also comes from PvP, while Treasure Hunt and other modes just don’t compete for gold earnings…

Seems like part of the solution isn’t to get trophies from quests or challenges or TH, but to get much greater gold rewards from them…


#24

Don’t we have a guild wars update coming in 2.3? That could potentially shake up trophies and how they’re generated.


#25

Nice topic ;-).

The leaderboard became more and more competitive. Last June, our minimal contribution was 200 trophies and now it’s 300… to stay close to our leaderboard position (if it’s really useful to up the minimal? Maybe. Maybe not).

And I don’t see how Guild Wars will solve this issue… For me Guild Wars -> more competition -> more stress. Let’s imagine that we steal trophies to a guild when you win a battle. arg I don’t see how it will better… In fact, I don’t see how Guild Wars will not add more competition between guilds.


#26

im hoping guild wars will shift the whole trophy weigth from regular pvp into the guild wars itself, and being limited per time more then the pvp could actually lift some weight off each member

the problem with current trophy system is that its not limited so it requires too much time to stay competitive


#27

Competition isn’t bad in and of itself. The issue I believe that the OP was talking about was that the only form of Competition is through PVP. If they added Trophies to Explore for example, then there would be a larger variety of ways that guild members could help their guild compete, without having to ALWAYS be doing PVP, which is what I think @Sidousai was having issue with.

Now the adding trophies to explore is just a very quick and basic example. There could be another method completely new that changes everything up and PVP is no longer the main method to gain trophies. We’ll just have to see.


#28

Some people are competitive by nature and are happier when they feel like they are succeeding (in this case by climbing the rankings). There’s nothing wrong with that as everything in GoW (and every other game for that matter) is a bit “artificial” if you really want to dive into what makes a game “worth” playing.

For me, as a GM, higher rankings = easier recruiting. I can’t speak for all GM’s but for me personally, I feel like recruiting is my least favorite part of managing a guild. I enjoy our members, don’t get me wrong, but recruiting is kind of like dating: nobody enjoys the process, most of us just enjoy the results…hopefully (or at least that’s what I remember; it’s been a looooong time since I was on the dating scene lol). :wink:


#29

Yup, +1 to this. I’m not a GM in GoW, but I’ve done it in the past in other MMOs and I always left recruiting to officers if I was able to. Particularly the advertising one’s guild in chat.

With the higher guild = easier recruiting, what benefits do higher guilds get other than the increased daily gold bonus? (which I think comes in tiers, so all guilds of the same tier would have the same bonus?)


#30

Right now that’s it. The actual rewards for being higher up the rankings are pretty paltry.

Once Guild Wars drops, who knows? To the best of my knowledge, the devs haven’t given us any clues as to what mechanics Guild Wars will use nor how/what we will get rewarded for. It’s possible they will create a brand new ranking system (one that resets on a weekly or monthly basis, most likely) or there will be no ranking system at all. The possibilities are endless lol


#31

I’m afraid that devs will not say anything until a preview and then “throw” the Guild Wars feature… This feature is a very critical one and I really hope that devs will share some informations with the community.

I don’t see the relevancy of another ranking system: for the moment, trophies are almost useless aside a non-rewarding leaderboard.

Interesting idea. But how will you limite the amount of trophies by week by player and at the same time maintain the competition? I mean the top guilds have a huge trophies amount and so it will be near impossible for other guilds to go up in the leaderboard (I’m okay with that but maybe some players will be sad ;-)).


#32

@turintuor
um sure devs will have a better idea but here is an example:

every guild can invade in war 2 times a day and get 1-2k trophies per guild victory, thats extra 14-28k trophies per week,
per 1 guild invade every member can fight 3-6 times (getting extra 1-3 trophies from it counting as a pvp match) … so for a week of participating in war a member will do 42-84 fights which grants extra 42-252 trophies per member … 30 x 42 to 252 = 1260 to 7560 plus the victory trophies of 14k to 28k
in the end whole week of war granting maximum of 16.260 to 35.560 trophies a week
with current weekly trophy change (from this topic) (this table) stating top guild does 25k to 40k weekly trophies at most with an extra 16k to 35k things could shaken up more into war and less into pvp alone

but thats just one system i made up based on another game, im sure devs have their own better idea

other thing they could do is make the guild ranking reset monthly (and remake guild statistics growth to be dependant on statues alone, not trophies) then the leaderboard would be reflecting only the current guild vs guild pvp competition and not whole gow lifetime of effort of growing guild - which means the pressure towards trophy on most of non pvp, casual, and even many of the ‘just below the top’ guilds would be reduced , recruitment requirements would change as well

or they could even simply add a different type of guild war trophies and base a new leaderboard on it and depending on its rewards whole guild meta could switch to wanting to be in the guild war leaderboard instead, it could even affect recruiting and so on leaving the original trophy leaderboard as an irrelevant remnant of the past (coz lets face is, some bonus gold is not huge deal, its just the only way to show how good is the guild atm but if we get new ways to check, something that shows more the current state of guild sstrength not an overall,it might work who knows?)

of course none of this will change the pressure of top #3 guilds competing for top #1 but i think many of top #20-#50 will already breathe with less pvp pressure (outside of war which is just few fights a day) not to mention a lot of guilds that are below the top

there is a lot of ways for devs to do it, i hope they will choose something that indeed lessens the pvp pressure a bit :slight_smile:
(i really hope they will give some leaderboard that resets coz i find a never reseting leaderboard really unfair. its not a players fault they joined one year later but hey the distance to make is wider and wider… really unfair :disappointed:)


#33

Thanks for your ideas.

So it means that every member have to play every day -> more pressure. Some days I just don’t want to GoW…
Which game has this guild system?

They should . But because they added new guild tiers, I think that the trophie reset would not occur…


#34

@Sidousai thanks for starting this discussion. As a normal player of top ranked guild on PS4 i have the same problems as you do. My GoW experience limits to invades as there is no time (and point) to do anything else.

I don’t have much time to play due to work/etc so in order to get the guild mins i must focus on doing invades. Not to mention that 90% of the time i play against same troops (but that’s another issue with this game). Doing challenges or maps feels like wasting time due to the lack of trophies.

I wish your concept of ‘doing anything advances the guild’ comes to life as the game really needs it.


#35

After being a gamble addict for some years. Not too horrible, but horrible enough. I must admit that the explore mode has really helped me. Why? Because getting an arcane from them now and then gives me the little excitement, I need. Also it is a fast mode especially with a Bombot/Rowanne team. I would loved to see that this mode gave 1 trophy for each match, as it is not much faster than the 1 trophy pvp battle and that gives also a lot more of gold, but less a chance for obtaining an Arcane.

When it comes to maps, I think it should pay out 1 trophy for every 20 moves.

About challenges, I think doing all 5 challenges of one kind, should give 10 trophies when the 5 star one is obtained, afterall, when they are done they cant be done anymore. (Can be replayed, but while 5 stars, its 5 stars.)

Quests, Doing the whole quest line of a kingdom should give 30 trophies, afterall they can only be done once.

Arena has an okay payout of trophies now, but I think the gold payout should be lifted to about the double.

Great post by Sidousai, btw… :slight_smile:


#36

Summoners War
(every member has 3 attacks per war_invade but attacking a player means 2 fights so its 6 fights/war_invade -> 12fights/day, to do your 3 attacks you have 10-12 hours and the hours when exactly are decided by guild master / the person who launches guild war_invades, within this system guild master chooses a fixed amount of members that will fight along the week, members itself can change but the number of them not so if guild master decides only 15 ppl attacks then there is 15 ppl attacking whole week etc, and every war_invade the members can be swaped so ppl who dont have time at certain hours just need to tell that and it can be arranged for them to not fight etc)
generally that system works out great, ppl who wanna fight - fight, ppl who dont - dont

i just skipped all that details for the sake of giving simple example, you know


#37

AAANNND by the same dilemma, this week’s Explore Event is basically dead to me. Dead! :sweat_smile:


#38

I also tried a different game with some guild wars aspect: Forge of Gods.

From what I remember (and the wiki http://forgeofgods.wikia.com/wiki/Guild_Wars):

  • Guildmaster or sergants can attack one guild at the same time (up to 3 guilds acording to your guild level)
  • Attack last 24 hours
  • Every guild member can invade 10 times for each attack (so 30 invades/day…)
  • You can gain guild points according to your power level versus the enemy one.

So there is also a limitation (which is too high I think) but it’s not so much easy to win against someone with an higher power level than you (compared to GoW…).


#39

I agree entirely…having the same issue. His solution sounds reasonable. Hopefully, you can fix things so we can contribute in a total way while enjoying the various ways to contribute. Allthatjas.jeff@gmail.com


#40

I’ve been playing for a while now. I’m a member of a top 5 guild on PS4. I still don’t understand the trophy requirement thing. What benefit is there to gaining trophies once you are a topish guild? Are there different bonuses for the 4th place guild than the 5th? Or are they just worried about falling out of that top tier?
Thanks


#41

Some of the trophy chasing is a carry over from earlier days of mobile. Competition, and recruitment, and with a side of tracking player activity.

Before the player base expanded so dramatically, being a high ranking guild really helped pull other super grinders to your guild. Super Grinders grouping up, meant much more gold generation for the guild, which led to vastly greater earning of resources.

It’s a bit hard for me to explain how many more resources Match Makers was earning back when the iron keys and gem->gold loop existed.

So I know we still use Trophies in Vn4ever to help track activity and commitment. We’ve stopped trying to challenge for the very top ranks. Sure, we’d like to stay top 5, but we allow vacations, and have a lot of players that can’t push more than 400 trophies a week.