[FIXED?] AI Orbweaver hero summoned a Giant Spider without taking damage

Thanks for that @Jonathan.

Another annoying side effect!

Yeah Obsidius is cool, not ideal for L&D once it’s blessed, but before…

As a bit of experimentation, I’ve been using Enraged Kurandara and Basilisk vs L&D and that’s sorting it out a fair bit. :slight_smile:

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What a surprise! /sarcasm

Once again, its time for Guild Wars
Once again, it happens on the same color day too

If that wasn’t enough, now I have on video 3! times where the hero summoned a spider without taking damage in 1 minute.

When the enemy hero has 34 armor/ 214 life…

Watch as he summons a spider after King Avelorn dies.
Watch as he summons a spider after the first Giant Spider dies.

and for good measure

When the enemy has 96 life…

Watch as he summons a spider after killing a Giant Spider.

Guess I’ll be back here in 4 weeks with more spiders.

(For the record, I have no problems with L&D/Orbweaver. This is a bug and that naturally annoys me and this might solve other people’s problem of L&D Spiders…)

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I think ive got this

It has to do with the order of board resolution (skull match first then gem explosion due to hero’s trait) and the visual bug where damage isnt updated correctly.

The first 2 summons, you kill the top troops by skull matches then the blue gem explosion deals 2 damage each time to their hero which triggers his summon trait. However, the damage is only updated correctly after you kill the 2nd summon. At 0:25, you can see -2 to his armor but his actual armor goes down by 6.

Same thing with the last summon. His actual health is 92 after the summon without the visual bug.

In other words, i think the trait is working correctly. But the visual bug makes it look like the hero is summoning without taking damage

So there is damage being applied, but it isn’t shown until later in the match? That explains several strange things I’ve seen, where a troop just poofs out of existence at the start of the AI’s turn.

Yes. I believe you can reproduce what you describe by matching doomskulls against an agile troop. They can dodge the skull match but still take damage from doomskulls, but no damage is shown. If their hp is low enough to die from the doomskulls, they will go poof at the beginning of their turn. If they survive, the damage isnt updated until they take another hit

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Its definitely a possibility. When it comes up again, I’ll keep a closer eye on that.

I think this could also be part of how you sometimes get double/multiple Orbweaver summons seemingly out of nowhere, aside from when triggered by multiple skull matches?

And I agree this is probably how it happens, and it makes sense in terms of the order in which the different pieces of damage occur and board resolution (match, explosion, explo-damage to the next troop now that the first is dead). I’m wondering whether or not I like it :sweat_smile:. Could almost be an incentive to not use explosion-traited troops/heroes :confused:.

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It might be a possibility. However, it is a bug and should be fixed if indeed it works like you think. Basically, the sequence in this case is:
-1. Skull match 4+ kills a card on top of Orbweaver.
-2. Card dies and is removed.
-3. 4+ match triggers an explosion.
-4. OW takes damage from the explosion and summons.
-5. Damage is not displayed because the other part of the resolution that registers damage processes the sequence as 1-3-2-4 and not as 1-2-3-4.
6. Something else happens, like end of move or end of turn or whatever else, and a resolution of this discrepancy is triggered, which resolves a mismatch between two triggers.

This may mean that different triggers resolve the same sequence differently. Eventually some sort of a sync between them is triggered somehow. Wow, that is very messy. Some really large cascades may have dozens of triggers. As the game tries its best to do it in real time, the errors and mismatches are essentially unavoidable and have to be cleaned up at some point.

Anyhow, a simple solution for this annoyance is to make this particular trait trigger once per turn aka Kraken’s damage.

I wish somebody takes a look at all this mess and cleans it up. It is probably possible but seems very unlikely.

AI Orbweaver took some damage here I reckon:

Internet is crazy slow, but I’ll try to post a link when fully uploaded. (Went from 37% to 39% while typing all of this).

Basically, Zuul killed Fist of Zorn, Monk kills Orbweaver. Triple spawn. At least it wasn’t GW. Or would I want 3 spiders so I get credit for more damage?

Three of a kind, send me to Vegas. I’m feeling Lucky tonight.

Edit: Clip finally uploaded:

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In this case I’m thinking three separate skull matches counted as three separate instances of “when I take damage”, which all successfully triggered a Giant Spider.

I don’t think that’s necessarily “bugged” so much as “not something that was thought about” in the implementation of the trait and skull converters, and is a bit eugh.

At least in this case the Orbweaver hero actually took damage rather than it being soaked up pre-emptively by the summons that needed the hero to take damage to be summoned in the first place actually no one taking any damage (Orbweaver probably had an undisplayed -1 skull explosion damage or similar), unlike:

I’d actually be very much in favour of all these damage sources being lumped together as one damage hit per cascade for battle resolution mechanics, meaning you’d only get 1 Giant Spider when converting multiple skull matches, although if that lead to a subsequent skull drop cascade, each of those could count for another source of damage.

This are a couple of other traits/mechanics that would be affected by this, they don’t come to mind currently, but I don’t think it would really have much of an impact, and I’ll come back and edit if I remember.

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I thought that was the case for dodge: Egg Thief (or another opponent) gets one roll, and either dodges all skull dmg, or none of it. I have no basis for thinking that, which is why I rarely bother thinking. But I thought it came about when Kraken was nerfed from 3 dmg per 4 match to one per board.

And thanks for the screen grab, plus analysis. Cheers. :slight_smile:

I am curious as to what would have happened if a Doomskull was involved. Would that have triggered a 4th Spider, or would it have been calculated separately and had dmg applied to the first spawned. I shall keep an eye out in future battles. At least it can’t spawn a fifth. I don’t need any more fifths in my life.

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Maybe this is the same with the Orbweaver chance, and would only ever spawn either 0 or 3 spiders (in the case of 3 skull matches like in your video)! :man_shrugging:

Yeah, on the whole I think one spider per board would be more fair.

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I got more instances of this event if needed. Just another on the long list of bugs I have videos for that are not getting fixed.

Also, not everything rounds down. I know mana from explosions is bankers rounded.

Yes, please post the video. I thought I had seen it happen a couple of times, but wasn’t recording

Here is the most recent I found.

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If this happens again, can you click on the Orbweaver hero to see if it’s taken explosion damage but just not showing it (like what sometimes happens with Egg Thief)?

I often play on my phone, so am not easily able to record things, sadly.

It was not the visual bug where you can click on the troop and see the actual health while the one on the battle screen seems untouched.
But even if it were to of been damaged that would be a bug in itself.

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I’m guessing this is still a thing, as I fought a nerfed (allegedly) Orbweaver team. I do apologize for no capture.

5 spiders into the match (Firebomb, Orbweaver, Battlecrasher, Lust), me with stupid skull dmg team (and Sister Superior, to stun the visible 2 Lusts), top spider has 8 health. Orbweaver 6 health. I cast Qilin, kills Spider with 4 match skulls, and a 6th spider spawns. Orbweaver still has 6 health.

Again, apologize for no screen grab. Guess I should be thankful it didn’t spawn two (no room). And thankful I won. Eventually.

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Yep. can confirm, this has not been fixed even remotely, encountering the issue multiple times after the “update”.

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Hey team, we struggled to reproduce this, but have pushed a fix we think should solve the issue. Please let us know if the issue persists so we can look into it again!

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