Explore level 12 META question

How much slower is the team:
-Mt. Crusher
-Scorpius
-Leprechaun
-Webspinner

Compared to Euryali instead of Webspinner

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But I would side with Euryali over Webspinner in the 4th position. If you want an answer in terms of seconds or minutes then best of luck to you on all the possible subjective answers.

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Unfourtnally I don’t have Euryali

I think this is a situation where it will take longer to math the answer than to play a few rounds with both teams and keep the one you think feels the best.

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Then for you, Webspinner is your fastest option. :grinning:

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I’d suspect considerably, because that particular lineup has to rely filling Webspinner on mostly blue explosions or very lucky green cascades, and the “setup” Webspinner cast is very likely to drop the turn since the board will be mostly brown by that point. You’d be looking at probably twice as many casts and 1 or 2 more turn drops on average compared to the “optimal” configuration, I’m betting probably taking you into > 75 seconds per battle average territory (measured including load times and variance, not in-game time for your fastest battle), at which point there are a number of similar speed options you could try out instead of trying to force this setup. “Optimal” MC/Scor/Eury trio with an accelerator (Leprechaun or Apothecary or Gimlet or TPK etc, all have similar outcomes - some have faster potentials but higher variance) combo in Urskaya (no poison immunities) has measured at ~40 seconds per battle average (again, including load times and variance)

If you want to use Webspinner as your poisoner, I’d recommend:
-Essence of Evil (with a class that uses the “Forest” tree, thus has root trap and leafstorm start talents, preferably one that also has half mana start)
-Webspinner
-Scorpy
-Leprechaun (or TPK)

Because you still need an additional cast to set up the poison, and 1 or 2 additional casts from essence to refill scorpy for the final cast, this one is still a bit slower than “optimal team under optimal conditions”. However, Webspinner generally fills before scorpy is ready for the first cast, and frequently leads into essence being full again with an extra turn (if it wasn’t already) thanks to the green storm. For good measure, if you don’t have to use essence to take away a poison immunity, you can also use it to freeze a green troop to make your casts safer, target a troop that has a lot of their colors on the board so you get a bigger explosion, completely disable a troop that has a threatening spell, or reapply a broken root trap. Also remember that a +9 essence will apply curse to the first enemy, which refreshes an existing root trap, and steals some of their mana, which is usually enough to prevent them from casting that turn as well without ever having to target them specifically. A +10 essence has a chance of changing the first troop into a frog, which is sometimes not beneficial and not optimal for explore IMO because then they aren’t poisoned and can attack you. I don’t recommend upgrading essence to +10 because you can’t ever undo it.

In terms of overall speed, this is generally only a few seconds slower per battle on average than the “optimal” variant (~45-50 seconds including load times or variance, depending on how much poison resistance is encountered and therefore how many essence casts you need), but it can also handle far more kingdoms, with Doom troops being the only thing that still can’t be poisoned.

You can also use an Obsidius in place of your accelerator to handle undead kingdoms and the team is still usually faster than most 4-cast Irongut variants with Earth’s Fury, and probably significantly faster without Earth’s Fury and a <50 attack Irongut.

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So my question would be, is it worth it to craft Scorpius without Euryali, or do I keep using my other team:
-Shield of Urskaya
-Holy St. Astra
-Tesla
-Thrall

I would like to craft a second Pharos-Ra or a TPK, or maybe a second Tesla idk

Ps: unfortunately my Essence of evil is +10 I wasn’t aware of the downsides

Yes.

TPK is a better universal choice than Scorpius, if the option presents itself or if you need to save diamonds to make sure (checking Soulforge history https://www.taransworld.com/SoulForge/, it looks like we are about two weeks from a new cycle before TPK has a chance of appearing). I wouldn’t bother with a second Pharos while you are still missing “must haves” like TPK (where the game is at now, I’d be hard pressed to recommend a first Pharos over some other mythics if you have the legendaries that make them good). I don’t think a second Tesla would strongly benefit you there. Euryali is an optional optimization to Scorpius based farming, but not the main thing that makes it possible, so I’d place her far down the priority list.

EoE +10 still works for this, it just sucks when your transform un-poisions the toad and costs you another cast or 2. Its not that big of a time loss. The new toad will be also unentangled but only have about 40 attack, usually not a lethal threat. +10 is more of a liability in delves IMO, where the safetly disabled first slot is replaced by a toad that can kill you with a sky skull or take your mismatched green cascade to rearrange your team and ruin your run. +10 occasionally gives you free wins in PvP because you essentially prevent half their team from doing anything significant with a single cast after a single mana match, so its not a total loss.

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I would not craft 1 Ra over TPK let alone a 2nd one lol.

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For Scorpius, euryali is just important because of its 3rd trait

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Is in event chests this week, so you could get lucky and pull her.

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Webspinner is a good enough substitute for Euryali.

In an ideal world, you’d cast Leprechaun and/or Mountain Crusher and get a 4/5 match somewhere between those 2 casts and even more ideally fill Scorpius. At that point, that’s where Euryali is the most ideal troop. However, sometimes the game can be frustrating and just not have any 4/5 matches show up for a good period of time. In that case, turn dropping troops that still poison all aren’t the worst thing.

If you’re using it with Webspinner, you’d want to run it as

Mountain Crusher
Webspinner
Leprechaun
Scorpius

so you dont end up only filling Webspinner on blue mana and wasting turns waiting for it to fill.

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By the way, we also have Magnus, which fits better with the Mountain Crusher variant than Webspinner does IMO and is still a decent choice (even though we use common mana, we get a lot more of it). Theres also Shadow Dragon, which is kind of awkward for this setup for both Essence and Mountain Crusher variants but usable, Plague if you are have him and are desperate, and you can make Wyvern work if you really need to, and the setup is still generally one of the faster explore 12 options available if you don’t run into immunities (most other poisoners are too random or awkward that you’d want to use a scorpy setup for speed, because speed consistency means you need at least those back 2 enemies poisoned at around the same time he fills, without having a chance to not poison your intended targets after casting your poisoner).

Euryali is by all accounts a time save over other Scorp setups by virtue of not having to cast, but not an absolute essential to the setup. Eury without Scorp is by most accounts not hugely useful.

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Its not, the color block is too heavy. If you place Magnus in the back, you waste extra casts to fill it separately. If you place Magnus in front of Scorpius, you waste time refilling it before you can refill Scorpius for its second time to cast.

Webspinner stays out of Scorpius’s way in fill time and Leprechaun exploding green means Webspinner is getting a good portion of its mana guaranteed as long as its in front of Leprechaun (and once Webspinner casts, it can stay filled for Leprachaun to keep doing things). Scorpius is still filling on yellow and MC spilled over Brown so there’s no time loss on the Scorpius side of things.

Plague is okay, but having only blue to fill it can be slow sometimes when paired with Leprechaun…

Shadow Dragon would run into similar issues as Magnus, but has the better benefit of not blocking Brown to Scorpius (from Mountain Crusher). Still slows the refill time of Scorpius’s 2nd cast. SD would have to be run in front of Scorpius too, as hiding it behind Scorpius is extremely slow.

Venoxia is too inconsistent

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Forget all of that, the fastest team BY FAR (save for Zuul’goth cuz I don’t have him) that I’ve found, compared to Scorpius or Irongut, is:

Wrath, Glaycion, King Bloodhammer, Doomed Glaive

Literally skull spam your way through everything. I haven’t lost a fight in ages.

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Are you sure? I’m skeptical because of your mana generation,I’ve just got Scorpius and I’m averaging 30 seconds, my team is:
-Mt. Crusher
-Webspinner
-Leprechaun
-Scorpius

What’s your average time?

I’ll have to time it. I did Forest of Thorns full Explore (4 fights, Mini Boss, Mythic Boss) in 7 min 21 seconds with [1247,6478,6759,6790,3039,3,1,1,1,1,3,0,14004]. That’s pretty long, because each fight was an average of 76 seconds. With my team above ([6604,6565,6566,1248,3002,3,1,1,3,2,3,0,14004]) in Suncrest I averaged 33 seconds with a total run time of 3 min 40 sec for 4 explores, mini and mythic boss.

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On what Difficulty level?

12 of course :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

I just tested this team: [6746,1220,6470,6409,3003,3,1,1,3,2,3,0,14004]

That’s Obsidius, Essence of Evil, Scorpius, Euryali. I needed Obsidius because it was in Ghulvania and I needed a way to stun them all to remove Undying so I could poison them, otherwise I would have ran Gorgotha for far better mana generation (since Obsidius color blocks purple and brown from Scorpius). The whole run took 6 min 42 seconds, average 63 seconds per fight.

That’s one of the problems with Scorpius or Irongut, things that are immune to poison/devour you need to curse or stun. Skulls don’t care about any of that. In fact, you can be entangled with my skull team and still kill everything with doomskulls.

I wasn’t seeing it, and I tried your team.
I lost the third battle in Suncrest.
Great board control, but I’m just not seeing how it can be 30 second matches. :man_shrugging:



Evidently there’s a pop up after you lose that if you hit “okay” it starts you back at scratch.
So now I’m pissed (not at your team) at the bull shit design elements of the new Explore and can’t test anymore.
Maybe others can test it, or you can do a video.
I think it’s a 90 second team which is still fast, had great board control. But can go sideways on you quick if the AI gets the Doom storm working in their favor.
For those that don’t have ZG, Euryali and Scorpius. It’s probably their best option.
When I have more time (and more patience) I’ll see if I can improve upon it. There’s a lot of “feet” being stepped on Mana wise with that build.