Dungeon Feedback

Once again cheaters are rewarded by finding patterns in the game rather they found it legally or not doesn’t matter, meanwhile the rest of us get absolute shit and a big FU from the devs.

@Hawx, @gary, @sls , @CaptainAwesome y’all are way too good to IP2 by putting all this time and effort into making a shitty vanilla experience much better for the community. We (the community) appreciate everything you do but ALL of the IP2 employees clearly do not, and waste your efforts or at best let you take on as unpaid volunteers a greater responsibility for generating a good user experience than they do as paid employees.

I say this from a place of sincerity, thank you, but you should really reconsider how much of yourselves you give to a greedy company that actively sabotages your contributions. It’s why I stopped beta testing months ago. It’s why I found myself slipping down the same path of countless others before me who got jaded and then angry at the abuse to the userbase. Take care of yourselves and your well-being first and foremost.

My Dad gave me an excellent piece of advice a long time ago when I was first disillusioned working for a terrible job. “You can’t care more about/be emotionally invested in your job more than the people in charge or else you’re going to burn yourself out, get taken advantage of, or both.” IP2 will never care about this community with the same passion you do, so don’t let yourselves be used.

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This is what the Devs, Mods, etc. used to do in Destiny and one reason a lot of people would quit. They would nerf any good weapon people would find and say it was never supposed to be that good of a weapon. Then people would find farming techniques and they would take those away. Then they would ignore any and all bugs people would complain about and threaten the players when they dared to express frustration

I really needed to hear this today. Thank you @ctenn2ls. I’m trying my hardest to bite my tongue and not say every cuss word I know like I did this morning when I read my in game mail. You guys deserve better than this. I know the “I’m quitting” gets batted around for sympathy and nobody takes it as seriously but the amount of posts on different servers I’ve seen of people saying this was the straw that broke the camels back and they have quit is mental high. People aren’t quitting because of the features, they are quitting because of the way the features and community are handled.

I think my message to the devs is: We aren’t here complaining because it’s fun to complain, we are here trying to make your game the best it can be not just for us players but for your bank balance too. We want to support you and we want gems to be successful.

48 Likes

I’m more upset about them releasing an update that was clearly not well-tested. Couldn’t they do something to ensure the randomness of the dungeons? I wasted the first month opening doors 1, 2, and 3 first thinking I would eventually hit a perfect dungeon if I kept at it, only to find out that my odds of that happening were miniscule compared to starting with door 4 or 5 first. And then they fix it and offer 80 dragon gems as compensation. I consider that a paltry sum when they essentially misled the community about the true odds.

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They were cheating on us on purpose!!!

by telling us the dungeons are random and secretly introduced a code that gave the 1234-- aproach just 3% instead of 10% like it was intended (0% for 123 being Bosses!!!). Just to decrease the amount of perfect runs for most of the player base.

They are now lying to us!!!

by telling us, the pattern was an ???accident???
WTF This is BULLSHIT
It was an intentional fraude!!! (I know frauds can’t be unintentional, but you get the point)

I don’t see any reason, to give this company any more money who trys to scam the community that much.

A normal company would try to achieve a healthy community and balance the shit out of their games, to give the players a good feeling game. Not IP2 / 505.

Edit:
And don’t think this is the only time, they are/were cheating on us.

28 Likes

Of course. They were caught in a naked lie due to community proof. It damn sure isn’t the first one. What other processes are fudged behind the screen? As I stated in my Guild Chat, this is some carnie crap with rigged games. And because there’s no legislation enforcing transparency there’s no recourse other than to not support them financially.

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What a joke. You guys really know how to shaft your customers. Don’t be surprised when most don’t bother staying much longer.

The ONLY way to fix this is to create the Gem Dragon Crafting recipes NOW, not give a vague suggestion of UNSPECIFIED plans that you HOPE to introduce NEXT FLIPPING YEAR!

Do you really think we are that dumb to not realise what you are doing. Shame on you all.

10 Likes

It’s easy, devs don’t care about the game or players, they only want to milk as much money as possible, no matter what.
I have no words for devs, they won’t listen anyway.
I have words for all other players, do you want a change? Drive the change:

  • Don’t buy anything with real money in game until they have fixed this crap! -

Please share this proposal with all your guildmates!

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It wasn’t a seed issue, the game is perfectly able to create random enough numbers. The items behind the doors were secretly manipulated in a specific way, independent of the random roll.

It was well tested. The flawed randomness was done intentionally, the way it was observed to work required quite a bit of extra coding effort. The community is still waiting for an explanation why they thought “cheating” like this would be a good idea.

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With respect, computers arent great at RNG because coding is somehow connected to an algorithm based on a ‘seed’. The seed should be as random as possible and this can be achieved if you know what you are doing. Only quantum computers can be truly random but that doesnt mean an intelligent programmer can simulate this using volatile system parameters. But they didnt do this and some of you worked together to decode the pattern that inevitably could be predicted. Bang! instant fix!. Hawx etc…do not degrade yourselves for the sterling efforts you hace made to bridge the ever widening gap between larceny and the community. You should be commended for your efforts but look at how you were repaid. Never use forums to share your data based knowledge again. Because the understandable disgust you all now feel is a consequence of ‘community spirit’ and openness. IP2 will NEVER reciprocate these behaviours.

1 Like

By my records, the pattern was initially published 1 week ago today. It increased player odds from 10% to 15% (door exclusion pattern). Orphaned doors was added within the past few days and by my estimation improved player odds another 2-3% (to 18% success rate). That’s still not incredible odds, and with one week most players haven’t even gotten on average 1 more perfect run. Given the functionality that stays broken for long periods of time this is ridiculous. This includes daily deals for forge scrolls which were announced to be in the same update release as this initial dungeon change, but still aren’t working 37 days later. How can you honestly prioritize this fix over getting changes that were announced over a month ago working correctly?

It would be reasonable for them to say that this is an unfair advantage that players who frequent forums get over those who don’t. “Fixing” the randomness would have been reasonable under that guise. If that had been tied to another improvement like giving some dragonite for failed runs, or increasing the dragonite for successful runs (averaging out over time) the complaints would have been minimal. If this would have been tied to making it so that you couldn’t receive a 5th copy of gem dragon (so that you would at worst get all 6 after 21 eggs) everyone would have been happy. Instead we were “compensated” by less than 1 perfect run of Dragonite, and after 20 days will be net losing out.

This year we’ve gotten Battlecrashers during Kingdom Pass which require daily grinding of the game. We’ve gotten Dungeons which lock the best rewards behind 2 layers of RNG (the dungeon and the eggs). And we’ve gotten the Hoard Mimic which is behind 3 layers of RNG. Per TrueAchievements in 37 days 1,548 players have had a perfect run vs 270 who have gotten a Hoard Mimic in the over 6 months it’s been available. Had mimic rates increased at the same time as this fix (given that the content is now 6 months old) it would have really softened the blow. Our hard work to discover this pattern has been repaid by slapping our hands.

I’m close to quitting outright, and I definitely won’t be spending real money anymore.

8 Likes

Once again, this wasn’t a seed issue. They can roll up random numbers just fine, they do this many times each second for multiple areas of the game. The doors themselves were rigged, intentionally, to not contain all possible outcomes. The patch only removed the extra manipulation behind the scenes, the random number is still rolled up exactly the same way as before.

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I don’t get any withdrawal symptoms if I don’t play the game, though. I don’t get shaky hands if I can’t get every new troop there is.

I can tell the difference between being addicted and enjoying something.

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The community doesn’t have access to the code, we can only gather data and analyze what the code does.

It doesn’t make a difference on technical level. Just like you can manipulate the odds you can pretend that there was something else behind the door. This is really a matter of trust, and IP2 isn’t exactly faring well in that regard lately.

4 Likes

I’m one of those poor saps that chose 123456 for the first 30 days.
I am also a frequent forums reader and still waited the 30 days during mounting evidence from this awesome community showing that other patterns were more likely to produce a perfect run.

So, with the proof of a bias, I changed my sequence and with the creation of the door picking tool was getting closer to that perfect run. Now I’m back to square one.

Weavergate stopped my monetary investment and this latest ‘coding’ discovery only reinforces that decision. Whew, just in time as I have a free gift card that I was contemplating using for an in-game purchase.

4 Likes

Well at least it is now 10% for everyone
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if the devs are honest with us this time… :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :skull:

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Exactly. That’s the problem here.

Correcting the rigged randomizer is not the problem. Some are complaining only because they were exploiting it…

1 Like

Note (a) they were able to change the door algorithm without a client update, so clearly the door generation is server-side not client-side; and (b) there isn’t any visible client/server communication on opening a door, only at entering the dungeon and at entry/exit of dungeon battles – unless they’re doing so at door opening silently and with minimal lag which … hasn’t ever been something they’ve achieved before.

So yes, I would guess the layout of all 6 doors is generated up-front server-side, either at daily reset or on-demand on first entry to the dungeon.

Do we trust that that generation is fair now, given that it very deliberately wasn’t before? Trust’s a tough thing to come by, these days.

FWIW, I am 100% on Fourdottwoone on this: the “item X cannot be behind door Y” pattern that was discovered was not an subtle RNG seed exploit and was not accidental: this was a deliberate design and implementation choice.

I am willing to extend a little benefit-of-the-doubt that the resulting penalizing of players choosing the “well it’s random so I may as well always play 123456” strategy was an unintended/unconsidered consequence rather than deliberate cruelty.

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I don’t even think it would be reasonable for them to say that “this is an unfair advantage that players who frequent forums get over those who don’t” - we live in an information age and the information was available publicly. It’s no different to people joining other forums, groups and communities to learn more about the game including tips and strategies.

5 Likes