Dragon Soul OP but Goblins aren't?


#1

Nothing too see here


#2

Dragon Soul OP

Just on warlord 1 because Khorvash scares me

I could beat 500 Dragon Soul teams with even stupider teams than this but it will be a waste of time


#3

The reason I am so annoyed by this is because I always use Dragon Soul against Mab teams and also there is a thread started 4 MONTHS AGO with 500 replys begging the devs to do something about Dawnbringer on defense teams in arena and NOTHING has been done but Dragon Soul gets nerfed.


#4

I think the problem is the term “OP”.

The third trait is something everyone wanted to get changed since it’s not unique to TDS and it’s been basically community demand that it gets changed. Sure, if it really will be “100% chance to respawn as a different dragon”, that’s complete crap and one of the worst legendary traits ever, but still… people wanted the devs to get rid of the resurrection trait. We can’t complain about something seemingly everyone demands since ages.

The Mana Shield thing is a different matter, buuuuut…
The thing is, Goblins are supposed to be that way. Extra turns are their thing, just like Fortitude is the Dwarf thing. And we see from these examples that good racial traits make racial teams possible.
Now, on the Q&A, Nimhain said that several races will get racial traits in 3.3. and the fact that they didn’t say what TDS will get as Mana Shield replacement miiiight hint that dragons could be one of the races and TDS might get an equally good racial trait. Since he is already drawing spell strength from other dragons, that would make him formidable still.
But yes, I am aware of your issue - TDS was my midgame counter to Mab as well.

I think the main problem with TDS losing Mana Shield - without knowing what’s going to get there instead - is that TDS loses it but others with Mana Shield don’t. I don’t think comparing a non-racial trait to a racial one is super-good. But comparing TDS with Anariel (since it is at current point not 100% clear if all elves or only Silverglade elves will get Mana Drain immunity as racial trait), who is almost as common in PVP and also considered OP, seems wiser. And she isn’t losing it and that’s the issue I have.

So tl;dr: If TDS gets a good racial trait instead of Mana Shield, I’m okay with it. If he gets crap for it, I’m definitely not okay with it because he isn’t as “OP” in combat as some other Mana Shield folks.

And yeah, Krystenax is a million times more powerful. TDS just gets used more because people also use him midlevel for soul grinding, so a lot of people know how to use him, just don’t switch teams for PVP and so on during midgame.


#5

Getting rid of the resurrection trait I am 100% ok with and I think he deserves his own unique trait but if it is rubbish I will be complaining non stop.

The reason I compared goblins to Dragon Soul is because Fizzbang and Nobends both generate mana for their extremely powerful teammates (Krystenax/Grapplepot) but Goblins do it 100 times better. Salty saying Dragon Soul is overpowered makes me think he won’t get a better trait or he might get a worse one like Sylvanimore he has dragon bond and huge for his first 2 traits.

I did complain about Anariel a bit when TDS nerf was announced but I thought I would wait to see what troops lose and gain mana shield before I complain about it. Surely they can’t think it is ok to have a troop that self loops, fills dangerous troops and gives life to everything is ok to not be drainable when they have said a troop that explodes and does a bit of damage is too powerful to not be drainable.

If Dragon Soul gets a decent second trait I will learn to live with it but if he gets a stupid bond trait, armored or rubbish like that I will continue complaining.


#6

There’s several things I would like to see on him. I think the devs might confuse “OP” with “overused” since “overused” is definitely something he is - if they just want to get him out of PVP, maybe he’ll get some Necromancy in second spot so he becomes a main soul farmer for midgame people. I also wouldn’t mind some other immunity if it isn’t Mana Shield, but yeah, some racial trait would be nicest. I agree Goblins have better team synergy than dragons, but again, racial link of extra turns.

As for third slot, I would hate any rebirth-as-a-dragon mechanic. No matter if random dragon or a specific dragon. Just as I hate summoning. Fact is, unless you run a specific summoner set, summons can mess you up. In my dragon team, I have Dragotaur in front of TDS and every single time Dragonette spawns after Dragotaur dies and starts blocking purple Mana I get angry.

Honestly Anariel will get Mana Drain immunity as a racial trait, most likely. I doubt that all that Wood Elves get is Entangle immunity and all Dark Elves get is Web Immunity and Silverglade Elves Mana Drain Immunity. That’s way too little for Wood and Dark Elves as a racial trait and there’s also no common ground. It’ll likely be Mana Drain immunity as the link between the elves and then one extra depending on elf type. Means Anariel won’t be drainable anyway.


#7

I have to agree with @Maxx’s intent with this post. I fought a goblin team yesterday and Princess Fizzbang was the last troop left and she looped on me like 5-7 times in a row, maybe more (I play on 4x speed and it lasted for what seamed like ages). Goblin teams loop to excess far to often and bleed the fun from the game.

I am not nearly as worried about TDS as I am a full goblin team, or even a partial goblin team for that matter.


#8

It’s easier to rebalance one troop than several at the same time. It’s smarter to go after “the most overused troop in the game as indicated by data” than “something players only face occasionally”.

Fit TDS onto any mid-game player’s team and the win rate goes up by double-digit percents.

Fit a random goblin onto any mid-game player’s team and the win rate gets shaky. Once you add one goblin, you have to add three more. Even then, your win rate is a dice roll.

Personally I think we need a LOT of troop rebalancing, but it’s smarter to do it one troop at a time than try to shake up the entire game too much. Goblins are especially tough because a 1-goblin team isn’t strong enough to make any goblin exciting.

I don’t worry about Goblin teams, I just know they come down to who gathers mana the fastest.

I mean, shit, I fought a 4x Desert Mantis team yesterday and it took a long time to kill and nearly got me. I’ve only ever seen one team like this but since “I fought a Desert Mantis team yesterday and it was hard” I posit that means it needs a nerf.


#9

Keep the “gain an extra turn” on the goblins, it’s kind of their thing. But what if goblin 1 gets an extra turn, then the goblin 2 would have his chance of getting an extra turn cut in half? 3rd time, 25% etc. Because the way it is now, a goblin team can wipe you out on their 1st turn.


#10

"Please nerf ASAP every troop ever I cannot face. Thank you

PS: I mean really ASAP, like, now"


#11

This is not a nerf goblins thread I am just comparing Fizzbang and Nobends explosions with Dragon Souls and saying how much better they work.


#12

They don’t care about fixing goblins. People have been yelling about this for months. If they cared at all they would have never released fizz like she was on goblin week. Unless you tell me that they had no idea how stupid it was because they don’t play or even test their releases. That’s the only way something like that could have happened. Still you can have half you’re team wiped in the first turn by siren and their AI And fake random sky fall. Stop complaining the devs don’t care. They just want to find a way to get more money from us.


#13

I’m not asking for anything to be rebalanced the point of this thread is just that IMO Dragon Soul does not need a nerf.


#14

Certain troops being overused in PvP has been a problem for a while and instead of giving people a reason to use different troops they just nerf the problem ones and then a few months later they have the same problem but with a different troop.

I hate summoners too and when I used to use Krystenax and she summoned a purple troop that blocked TDS the match use to take twice as long.

I have a feeling Anariel is going to become a real problem especially in GW. Draining a Famine or Draakulis won’t matter if Anariel can just loop a couple of time and get them back up again the turn after you drained them.


#15

If Krystenax had the space to summon Silver Drakon, the match was already heading South.

Anariel has been around for a good deal of time, however. Now suddenly she’s a problem, mainly because until recently nobody used her.
…Just wait for Nyx-Anariel teams, that’s what I say.


#16

In pvp that doesn’t matter you can use goblin chomper to wreck goblins. It’s in war on days with no goblin counter like green or red. Even then with a counter I had my team wiped just a few mins ago on the first turn with siren loading them up and the Devs sky fall of AI combos. Done. Over. Never got a second turn. The devs know about this and have. Again they don’t care. In war a first round wipe in bracket one ruins that day with the scores being so close. I’m sure they will tell me sorry for the bad luck and count their money laughing the whole time


#17

I think the devs’ concern about TDS is not that he is currently OP, but that they want to prevent him from becoming OP with the upcoming changes to the Mana Shield trait. They don’t want to give him immunity to mana drain in addition to his current suite of benefits. In the early to mid game (where TDS is very heavily used on PvP defense), it would make him OP.

End game players are baffled by this change because they don’t see TDS as a problem at all. TDS isn’t even on a huge percentage of defense teams for 1,000+ level players. Fortunately, we are not the only players of the game and the devs need to address the concerns of the entire player base. So, TDS gets a little adjustment.


#18

The nerf, as it’s being announced, goes beyond taking Mana Shield away.


#19

How often do you win vs. Goblin teams?


#20

This is a good summation of how I think it’s going down.

Mid-game players have a lot of other things to turn to if their TDS is nerfed. They might even be better served by having to spend more time in mid-game instead of letting TDS rocket them to an upper tier. That’s kind of where I sit. Take away my TDS and I’ll rearrange my teams and find something useful again.

End-game players have better toys than TDS and aren’t even worried about most TDS teams. I wouldn’t argue I think end-game players should be super worried about Goblins, mostly because my mid-game ass isn’t worried about them. They’re like Dwarves, or Dawnbringer in Arena: “If things go badly I lose with no recourse.”

Goblins make us mad because they can still beat the T1 teams with high variance. The thing I find interesting about Goblins is I bet they have the same win rate vs. all teams, and that it’s on par with average mid-game teams. That’s the cost of high variance.

I think that’s what we really don’t like. But it’s what we want our offense teams to be. I don’t think the game wants slow teams that win via incremental advantage. But we have to fight what we use, sometimes.

Most of this is hard because we have nothing in the way of data. All nerf discussions are based on whatever thing happens to be hardest with that person’s collection to deal with. It’s heavily focused on end-game discussion because that’s the only part of the game where everyone has all of the same resources.