In general - no. For example I believe your guild’s members had lost many rewards in the past that cannot be tracked. Similarly in my guild, every monday rewards were lost, which I cannot expect to get back.
But in this specific case, we can get close to accurate estimate of what we lost. If we know that an amount of 5 million gold was donated in under an hour, which should translate to at least 150 tasks, that would mean about 130 were lost (for anyone who wasn’t logged in and picking them as they came). It should be easy to guess more or less how much of each resource was lost.
Another reason why I feel we should get refund is, unlike most guilds (including yours I assume) where donations are more or less spread across the week, our guild had the major part of tasks completed on monday (and specifically in this hour), which means most members lost most of their weekly rewards, and not due to inactivity.
[quote=“pekerpixar, post:20, topic:3369, full:true”]
really? When my guild found this problem, we thought this was on purpose, so we didn’t ask for any refund. We just make a schedule for the donation time and it works well.
[/quote]Aside from getting refunds, Just for the fact you ‘found’ this problem, I believe you should have mentioned this in the forum, and to the devs. This is not common knowledge and is not mentioned anywhere, I believe many guilds and players don’t know about it, yet any guild who did find out about it (including yours) just kept it for themselves and solved it internally, never rising the issue in the forum to notify other guilds. That’s what bothers me the most, clearly more than just getting refund for this particular case.
Given the system tracks contributions for each player week-by-week, there should be a reasonably accurate way to determine how many rewards should have been issued to each guild member in any week.
By summing the total contribution to the guild in that week, and if it cannot be tracked by specific task, then averaging the contribution using a rationale that generally gem/key/token tasks are done more often than Soul/Map tasks.
Then compare this with how many gems/keys/souls/maps were received by each member, and make up the difference.
Then draw a line in the sand - guilds to manage themselves until the cap is lifted/removed/changed to time-based.
@yonizaf
I haven’t gotten anything yet. Guess each member may need to file a separate support request. But I’m going to give it a little more time before doing that.
I am also in favour of waiting for a general answer here. Obviously we are not the only guild to experience the problem. Some official information on the subject would not hurt. It could prevent the issue from happening again.
And it seems to me it would be easier to give the 5 millions back to @dhjl rather than refunding an approximate number of keys and other things to 30 people.
I can’t say I agree with this, nor do I see it happening. For one thing, since I was the one donating,
I’ve already received the full benefit of said donation. To have the gold restored to me would mean
another sizable influx of gems/keys/souls that I didn’t actually earn. Also, seeing as there was no
limit on guild tokens, they at least were awarded correctly and it wouldn’t be fair to all the other guilds
if ours alone were to essentially acquire hundreds more for free to spend on increasing masteries.
This has the potential to seriously impact hundreds of the game’s most active players. In the past couple days my guild has cranked out over 60 tasks, which means anyone who takes so much as a day off is missing out on potentially hundreds of gems and keys that are rightfully theirs.
The developers are active on the forum right now. We deserve an explanation.
Secondly, we’re very hard at work on 1.0.9. and have a major deadline this week, so we can’t jump in to reply as quickly as we would like (we just got a brief moment to reply in the other thread), and as you understand, this is a hot topic amongst a few players and deserves a good well-thought-out reply.
Now… I’ll address some of this later, but:
The guild system has had a 20-task memory limit since day 1. There’s nothing new here.
It’s by design. I don’t have all the technical details on hand, but the limits involve some combination of queries + table record size.
It, of course, CAN be extended out to be more than 20, but requires engineering resources which are busy on other things right now. We will almost certainly be addressing it during our Guild update in 1.1.1
The number of players affected is very very small. And while we don’t want anybody to have a bad experience, we simply can’t do much about it in the time frame of the immediate future.
In short, if this were a bug, we might redirect some resources to look at it, but it’s not. Is it an issue that needs improved? Absolutely, and we’ll get to it!
Sorry if I’m coming across harsh, it’s just that this is a big deal, and I’m extremely disappointed that you all haven’t been more forthcoming about it.
People put a lot of hard currency and hard work into this game. The idea of it going to waste without so much as a whisper or warning is upsetting to say the least.
It wasn’t something that we’ve intentionally hidden, but it’s been obscured by the fact that it has almost never happened before.
Sadly our system just doesn’t store enough transaction-history on guild tasks to give players a perfect resolution, but we’ll do the best we can to resolve any issues as quickly as possible!
Thank you, @Sirrian for your response, which is really all I wanted. If the 20 task limit has been there since the beginning, I was totally unaware of it, and I am not sure how I would have discovered it, other than a situation like this. However, I am satisfied with the answer I received from you and from support, and I will keep the limit in mind for the future.
As a temporary solution, before the cap is lifted in 1.1.1 (technically this must be possible), is it possible to add a small warning indication in-game to warn about huge contribution, in 1.0.9? That should not costs you a lot of time. All players should be aware of this cap and clearly not everybody does.
Now that it is known, guilds can work around it, although a tad arduously, until 1.1.1. is live.
As to how it should be implemented, it would be good if it were time-based, rather than task based, particularly if the issue is inactivity. Given most guilds have a 7-14 days activity window before being kicked, suggest this could be a likely timeframe.
@Aelthwyn, @Brakkish, and anyone else from our guild: if you still want a refund, I guess this is your cue to go to support. I don’t think you will get much more help from this thread.
@Serale, @pekerpixar and anyone else who knew about it: How long has this been known? And how long was this potentially a problem before you noticed it?
@Sirrian, I do get that you’re busy with 1.0.9, and that this will take time to address. But I still find it hard to agree with most of the points you made. I will hold my response out of respect to the fact that you’re busy with the update now, but I do plan to expand on it in a future time.
I too was unaware of this cap, if it is explained somewhere I have never seen it. That being said I can appreciate the technical details around it and appreciate @Sirrian’s response to the issue. We as a guild need to work around it for now.
I did do some math on this yesterday to really see the impact. When @dhjl contributed 5m gold, he actually hit that 20 task limit 9.36 times. This is based on the fact it costs 134k gold to complete one set of the 5 tasks (times by 4 for 20 tasks = 534k gold). 5m / 534k = 9.36… remove 1 from that leaves us with 8.36x of this 20 task set left unpaid to the members. This does not take into consideration any other contribution made by any other player during this time.
Back calculating that value of the rewards based on this formula, each guild member lost out on 3331 souls, 66 treasure maps, 400 keys and 333 gems (give or take 1 for each item due to rounding). Obviously the guild tokens are applied to the guild only.
That is a pretty significant loss of rewards for our members who are fighting to get into the top 5 teams. Looking only at the cost of Gems in their store, plus the amount of Gems it takes to buy the equivalent amount of souls, it would take the close to $80cad of real money to make that up. This completely ignores the loss of Maps or Keys.
Like others, I submitted a ticket earlier this week and was asked to provide the amount of items I was missing and used the above formula to calculate that. We will see if they are deposited into my account as Tom in support said he would do this one time only.
I just got 96 tokens? Is there both a token and no. of tasks limit? If so, I bet it’s whichever comes first that is applied. -.-
So theoretically 20x 3 token rewards, or 14x 7 token rewards at the worst. I definitely just picked up 96 though.