Delve Improvement for Pure Faction teams

Ok so I know that devs are working on making it easier for pure faction teams.

Couple of suggestions that will make delves a bit easier:

  1. Increase amount of stats you get from hoard levels. This is instead of making them cheaper for 2 reasons:
  • Gold Sink is still needed outside of tasks.
  • It wont harm players with high hoards already and therefore less room for complaints.
  1. Change the stat bonuses for faction teams.

Currently most factions require multiple of troops, this then causes you to miss out on team bonuses. So to do this:

Make it so it does not have to be unique troops like other teams. Can have 4 of same copy and get the faction team bonus.
Increase the team stats you get for using all faction troops.

NOTE: Only do that for when in a faction fight.

  1. When a troop is summoned during the fight, apply all stat bonuses to them. Currently when I summon a troop in All Seeing Eye for instance, it will spawn with less stats then the version of it already in the team from the start. The stats are applied normally at start of next battle, but after it is summoned it is weaker.

The synergy between faction troops is always going to be an issue at times, as well as RNG. But changing the troops themselves will simply make them OP or alter their dynamic in events/general play outside of Delves.

Hope some of these help the devs make a decision on how to make delves a bit easier.

9 Likes

Many I further suggest that the static “+x when in delves” trait bonus scales - perhaps with Level of Delve or maybe level of Hoard
Since it’s contained within the delve environment, it can’t really be over powered and impact other game elements

Another idea would be to have a potion effect for each x levels of the delve or hoard that mirrors the potion boosts for events

4 Likes

I believe I have mentioned this before, but one thing is so obvious I have hard time believing the things are not working this way - faction pets should be distributed in such a manner that you have them mythic when completing level 500 delve no losses with a non-faction team. Period.
I reiterate - it makes absolutely no sense to have those faction pets as rewards for, what is essentially, high level faction runs. What’s the use of mythic pet to boost my faction team when I’m never going to do that fight ever again after defeating level 500 delve?

Another thought have been crossing my mind - what if hoard levels past 100 would be counted in a common pool?
What I mean is that each delve gets its own stat boost until hoard level 100, but anything above that counts for all delves. It doesn’t have to necessarily be a full-strength boost. It might as well be full bonus form native hoard 100+ levels and half-boost from other delves’ 100+ hoard levels (110 delve A hoard level and 120 delve B hoard level counts as 120 delve A hoard for full faction team and 125 delve B hoard level for full faction team).

10 Likes

+2 @Dust_Angel. The way you described the global hoard bonus past 100 sounded kind of similar to Guild War Sentinels! That could give inspiration for a coding fix :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:.

(Also kind of sounds like completing Basic Tasks, or local Hoard levels, and then being able to contribute towards (and have access to?) Legendary Tasks, or the global Hoard level and associated stats.

Thinking about it now, I think having an additional global Hoard bonus still has issues…)

A scaling Delve stat trait definitely seems quite reasonable/achievable to me (@GemsOfWar).

I agree with @Smash’s general sentiment!

Particular points I liked:

1 Like

Another option is to allow forging Sacred Treasure Cards for like 50,000 souls each… would kill 2 birds with one stone… a soul sink & our ability to forge Sacred Treasure. Just a thought…

goes and forages 100 of them instantly lol

Id trade major green for them though easily as well

Good points and i repeat we need 2 slots :slight_smile:

1 for random team and the other for faction only. So boring to switch team every time

2 Likes

Delve Improvements I would like to see (but won’t)

  • Hoard Level Scaling Parity (or Bonus) - if I have hoard level 200, I would like my stats to be at least the same as the AI at the same level as my hoard. The level scaling in this game is kind of absurd. The damage at higher levels is too little (player) and the armor/health is too high (AI)

  • Lift the Troop level cap (if even just for delves) - let the delve troops level up higher than level 20 (say level 500). If the developers had to somehow invalidate faction troops from PVP, I would be more than ok with this.

  • Faction Pet - drops on lower delve levels - maybe unlock on first reward level. The last reward could be the same though. Backloading the rewards for Faction Pets make little sense (supposedly, Faction Pets don’t count for the home kingdom either).

  • improve drop rates for Mythic/Legendary treasures (or reduce upgrade requirements) - i’m ok with more gold for less resources (or you could always allow higher level treasure purchases for gold/gems - not another “loot box” though)

  • A different kind of faction team (for me at least) - i’m getting kind of tired of all of these faction teams with 1-2 damage dealers and 2-3 semi-worthless troops. What I would like to see is a faction team with 4 characters who all have scaling magical attacks (like Yao) - no exploding, converting, healing, summoning, or instant death attack.

Agree with the sentiment @Smash! I think changing faction team bonuses wouldn’t help (won’t the IA team get the same bonuses in the boss room, anyways?), but something should be done either with hoards or allowing the main kingdom’s hero class to count as kingdom/faction troop…

The IA would one-shot us at higher delve levels then, since they have massive stat boosts :sweat_smile:

3 Likes

Great point, hadn’t consider that - so it would needs to scale off Hoard level (assuming Hoard level is only for players)
So it could still work - but your points are well made - better/stronger troops only hurts the players

Question: How much would a few more faction troops help?
Or is it like bounty, you just make do but they are not really “helping” there are just more options - Specifically this is not a solution, just a poor band-aid type patch

(Surely Hero being part of the faction is the simple answer)

1 Like

Here are some things I’d like to see for delves:

1 - Have a “delve level” for faction teams, and one for non-faction teams. Right now it’s frustrating that if I’ve played to level 300 in a delve, I can’t ever work on improving my all-faction record of 150.
2 - Have the horde stat bonuses triple (or similar) for in-faction troops.
3 - Have pure faction teams reset between battles, as opposed to non-faction teams which keep the perma-death / perma-jumble restriction they already have.

6 Likes

Delves where introduced almost a year ago, I started to level-up and beated a Level 500 in All-Seeing Eye, at the moment my Hoard Level is 275, and the cost to leveling up using 5 treasures is around 280k i think (horrible RNG for good treasures, this also has to be fixed), I’m just looking to the beat the pure faction one and get my PS4 trophy, but that just impossible due to the insane amount of attack and health the AI has. I managed to get to last battle with all my troops, maybe around 10 times, just to get decimated in a instant.
My suggestions are:

  • Level of the A.I. should drop SIGNIFICANTLY.
  • Ability to select the level of the Delve you want to play.
  • Delve pet should be already finished (like the friend mentioned above) when you reach level 500 in a non-pure faction.
  • A 200 Hoard level should be more then enough to beat the pure level 500 delve AI.
  • What you implemented in a game SHOULD BE TESTED and BEATED by a DEVELOPER.

Delve is the only thing i’m playing right now (My current player level in 1149), and this is bad, very bad… especially for the community and the clans. (many people like myself, want the trophy related to this specific topic and are not playing or doing there part on the clan anymore, because of this).

1 Like

Mines at 199 for ASE. I reach final room with all 4 troops maybe 1 in every 6 fights on average.

I dont think the level should drop, I think thats part of the challenge, but I do agree with The hoard level at 200 being more than enough.

The ability to select what level you fight would be amazing. Would mean I can level up my delves without having to jump directly to 500 pure for the 1s I didnt do earlier as I went

1 Like

Fighting a faction team repeatedly against pretty much the very same faction team is…how do I say…just plain dumb…and monotnous…and incredibly boring.
For the sake of variety, which is what this game should be all about, considering the impressive amount of troops in the game, just open up the faction teams to ALL faction troops.

3 Likes

Skull drop rate needs to be reduced by at least half. Jay Wilson it if necessary.

2 Likes

What about…
Spend souls via soul forge to get Mythic Hoard “troops” + gold to at least enable levelling faction hoards (or ideally just be able to spend souls to level faction hoards directly from the soul forge to avoid damaging in game economy)

1 Like

Potions have significantly raised the chances of successful runs at high level battles using the faction troops. This was not meant to be a fix to the daily delve frustration that we all face. Yes, some can be done at hoard 100 whilst others are highly unlikely. The cost in gold to elevate hoard level to a point where the faction team becomes even remotely competitive is ludicrous, and even if you have the gold, there is a significant shortfall of treasure cards to permit the horde level to be increased adequately. It’s a mess and I can totally understand why players are buying ten times tier 7 in a bid to max the pet and renown associated with a particular faction. The downside of this of course is how it affects balance sheets and profits. Great news for the devs and publishers, but very bad news for those of us with fewer resources, time and disposable income. Blitzing a 500 level faction event in a single day must be mind numbingly tedious. I wouldn’t do it if I did have the time and cash to do so. But now there is less incentive for the devs to implement an intelligent solution to the problem, ie increasing access to treasure troops and dropping the gold required drastically. Too many have jumped on the potion spending frenzy rather than wait for the proposed fix. Potions shouldn’t be in the game as far as I am concerned. Buying achievements is less satisfying than doing it at face value.

Agreed. The trouble with using Potions to reach L500 Pure Faction (aside from needing over 2,000 Gems) is that it takes so crazy long! Few players are going to be able to dedicate 8-10 hours on a Tuesday (I’m guessing at the time, but it seems about right).

Great suggestions, @Smash! I’d be curious to see how they might affect the viability.

I’m definitely on board with your second and third suggestions – total common sense! I also agree with @Dust_Angel, that it makes no sense that we work to earn a pet that would have helped us earn it – then never, ever use it again. When you put it that way…

Going back to when the Pure Faction problem first appeared, the first idea I heard from Tacet was to add a 5th troop to each Faction. I feel that would be problematic, for a whole range of reasons (for starters, why is it not in any of the battles?). Though maybe it’s a Faction-Killer, kind of like some of your companions. The second idea was to allow Hero. Here, the problem would be that Hero with Mang and Sentinel can solo most Delves, anyway.

So I was thinking of ideas in between those extremes.

It might be possible to introduce Hero to pure faction teams in a restricted way. That could mean restricting which Class or which weapon(s) can be used. Unfortunately, the current Faction weapons would probably not work, simply because they’re not designed for this purpose. Of course, restricting us to just one weapon and/or class might be too limiting, forcing a very specific type of play. So it’s not ideal.

My other thought was to enable Class talents but not have the Hero or any weapon in the team. Visually, we’re already there, since every team can be assigned a Class (hence the idea). I think this could be really interesting. I would definitely restrict it to pure faction teams, though.

The last approach I can think of is to boost stats more directly. Lots of ways to do this, but very hard to balance. Obvious approaches (in the current state of the game) include: extending the scope of potions bought during a Faction Event*; spending all 3 daily Sigils to boost stats; spending other resources to temporarily boost stats.

I think any of these could be made to work. But I would like to see a system that allows us some choice, rather than forcing us down a single path. Even if there does prove to be a single, superior path that we all copy.

* Potions might also apply for that Faction outside of the event on that day, or for the whole week, or for all factions, for example. Like I said: hard to balance.

All valid things and good ideas. I’m going to counter hard that Sentinel Hero with Mang can solo 500 factions. With good luck, it makes it easier, but there are so many things that can affect it, I think it’s being overstated. And so what if it makes it a bit easier, it has been made harder recently.

Hero might get a load of attack, but he’s not got 1,000 health/armour. Let’s take Ancient Golem, a staple on the way to Primal Rift final room. Often in 1 room at least and there are 2 team combo’s. Ancient Golem does from memory (completed it last week ) 78 base true damage, has dispel, gets bonus damage from blue gems and often after casting is 33% full. As an example in one fight last week he killed a full health Alderfather at hoard 120 and spell block with 1 cast. Sentinel won’t stop him so easily. AG resides in either team slot 3 or 4, depending on which team. normally tucked away behind 2 stone skin troops.

I think also what we are missing are some things the devs have done with room setups to make faction even harder. They said they were aware of the problem and then introduced more difficult rooms, more rooms to navigate and more things like death mark to randomly screw faction over. Also there’s a lack of imagination with some of the faction troops, that is compounded at high levels because skulls do so much damage and so do simple spells.

We already have 8-10 mana self filling troops hitting for truckloads at faction 500. We had Gimlet added last time round in combo with Lady Ironbeard = 1 troop dead immediately. They added a grief room like Hidden Nest (try doing that at faction 500 regularly in Primal Rift), it just made it harder with nimble and drain/entangle). Average time to win was 30 minutes when doing it for past few weeks.

All HOG takes at faction 500 is for the first two GG’s to either cast, or the top one get boosted with attack and it destroys the usual tactic of Silent Sentinel silencing on skull hit. I tried it today and I denied red/brown and the sentry filled on yellow of course and I’m dealing with the top troop with 500 attack in no time.

I generally get through that room, to then find that Baby Dragons have alert, and that’s the easiest room with TDS. I’m getting to the final room maybe 1:4 but all it takes is sky skull madness, usually reserved for the last troop in the first boss room and it’s finished. If S/S dies, and one skull hit from 750 attack - stick a fork in another delve gone for the day.

Anyway about Primal… to win you need to summon Treants and boost them.
This faction is predicated on you summoning Treant, if you summon him and can get him powered up and you can avoid entangle and you can survive skull hits of 300 from their boosted Green Golem, then you can do it.

So, although reluctant to give devs ideas, they clearly are not doing factions at L500 to see the clumsiness offered up, here’s a view.

So, how about we get a summons after each completed room. We can add a summons after battle, or draw one from paying for it, or maybe when destroying the blocks (another thing that makes it harder) we get a summon. We can use those at any time, limit is set by devs, again not going to suggest the cost/volume or what can be summoned, but anyway. We are restricted to colours and faction troops, maybe we can ‘open up’ the entire faction troop pool this way.

Another thought is the hero, if we think it is too easy with Mang starting out, how about if as part of our summons, we can summon a hero to rescue us, but he only goes where a troop has died and not in top slot. We can then choose what weapon he brings.

Anyway, just thought I’d offer a couple of counters, no doubt there will be gem costs, but that’s the game.

The real problem is stat disparity as has been stated.

1 Like