What about this?
12 mana cost: Summon a Creeper. Transform a selected Mana color to Purple.
Creeper is also a lot more useful imo than a Quasit…
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The whole reason universal converters are so great is because of the versatility of situations that they can work well in, but being saddled with a double summon of troops with an ability you want to fire off early on in the match that steal your mana and having a cost of 14 just severely mitigate the situations where she can be used well, making her a subpar converter and a subpar summoner. Aside from the colors and storm trait (which don’t get me wrong, is significant in a few situations), shes much worse than Giant Spider in almost any situation you’d use Giant Spider in, which is puzzling.
Summoning something and feeding it right away is a concept that has been used before with Corrupt Sorceress, who works way better than this troop. The 2+ summon and maybe feed them concept has been used with Gwayne, who generally works poorly because of the unreliability of what he summons and the unreliability of his spawns, but there is enough spread there that you might get a really good combo and swing the match and you might give them some mana to start with as well. And of course, Giant Spider is the model for summoning a fodder troop and converting a the same time. Erinyes takes the worst properties out of all these troops and combines them, removing most of why they would be used in any given situation in the first place. I’m just not sure why, given the stage of the game we are at where converters have already been heavily depreciated for exploders, that she needed to have so many downsides.
I can’t call her useless, but she is severely underpowered compared to other transformers. A 14 mana transformer is just way too slow to consistently be your opening move at endgame, and honestly, I haven’t been able to use Giant Spider or Hellcat as a consistent board mod opener in a long time without Forest Guardian support either, you need an extremely favorable board for you to have both enough mana to charge and then still have enough alignment to get your transform off (or another transformer you can go for that feeds it if you don’t, eg., alchemist or green seer going for a hard loop). For mid and late match, her storm trait can be useful for other troops that cause cascades, but it actually makes her harder to refill and get another convert off, which is generally where most the mana fed by converters come with. She can’t function as a solo team feeder like most the other transformers can, you have to have something feeding back into her. Likewise, she is a really poor dual summoner, because while one fodder of anything can be immensely useful in certain situations, two means you are already backed into a corner and really need something that can help you close out the match rather than a pseudo crowd control that is in and of itself probably overcosted a bit and often steals most or all the color you just converted.
After having used her for a while, shes kind of worse than I thought she would be even, but I’m still confident in my previous analysis and I’m going to give a similar same recommendation I did in the spoiler thread.
Do one of the following:
- Drop mana cost to 12 or 13 and summon one Quasist. (given the degree of blocking and how hard she is to open with, I now think she’d be fine with even an 11 cost on a single summon that steals some of your mana).
- Drop mana cost to 13 and summon two troops. Have the troops summoned either draw from a larger pool or be troops that transform themselves. While I don’t particularly like this mechanic and her usefulness would still be mitigated, I see how others could find this fun. She’d be a summoner first and mana feeder second.
- 10 mana cost, no summons. Have another secondary effect added to the spell (like soul gain). This is the one I’d like to see the most, but the least likely to happen since she her design has already been established.
Since she is not utterly broken, it is unlikely that we will see a full rework at this point, but I’m hoping more universal converters are designed to work in more situations than she is. What I’m holding out hope for at this point is a rework to Quasist to turn it into either a suicidal or transform troop, and maybe a one point reduction in her cost (they boosted it from 13 to 14 during development, so they thought 13 would be okay to start with). Speaking in endgame only terms, she’d be fine with an 11 mana cost and the double Quasist summon at the point we are at now, but I’m sure they wanted to insulate against possible frustration of infini-summons during early game.
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too similar to a Giant Spider summoning a Spider Swarm, even if a Creeper is more useful than a pair of Quasits
so what is your suggestion, if any?
Out of your suggestions, I like this the most.
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I don’t know. I’d like to see it have the same mana cost as Giant Spider or cheaper due to lack of magic link. I have no problems with the 2 Quasits, under the presumption I’m not relying on the summons to win and I’m soley using her for color transformation.
Having done this weeks event by Sacrifice sacrificing a lot of things, I can appreciate having the color change having an actual purpose when the rest of the team is dead.
The only time in team composition where Quasits would cause problems (in my opinion) is if it got spawned in front of a purple troop. If that was a possibility, I’d prime my team as much as possible to mitigate that issue though. At worst, I could just leave it full and pretend its a roadblock.
As you can see, both me and @Mithran came with suggestions that took away one of the summoning troops, and have only one summoning troop so the mana cost can be reduced. That was the whole point of these suggestions. If I get you correctly you want zero changes to her spell, but the mana cost lowered? I will get surprised if that happens, but lets see.
I have no problems with it spawning 2 Quasits. I’m not using the summons to be sacrificed to do tricks. Same reason I don’t use Giant Spider to spawn Spider Swarm to sacrifice it to do tricks.
The whole point is that its the two Quasit she summons(instead of one) that helds her mana cost up at 14.
Sadly, the double summons is her identity and that’s why she exists. Take that away and she’s more or less a reskinned Giant Spider which I’m sure people wouldn’t mind.
Yes, I’d be perfectly content if her mana cost was 12 or 13. People see her double summon as a detriment anyways. I don’t mind it.
Technically I think this would work too outside of every stage of the game except super early game. During this stage, some of the most powerful spells are the ones you can’t target, and getting your stats reduced means you can’t do much of anything without the slew of instakills that are available later on. Erinyes with a low mana cost could end up being pretty annoying at this stage of the game which is what I think she is balanced around now. By mid or endgame, she functions either as a purple feeder or fodder summoner, but rarely both at the same time, which even Giant Spider does at 13 mana. She doesn’t self heal in any way and has no special protection, so wiping her out or disabling her is not a problem at all once you have the tools to do so. And since she was changed to an Epic before being released, no danger of polluting the Arena, either. Endgame wise, she’d be “okay” just being 12 or 13 mana, and “good” at 11 mana (11 being pretty much the cut-off for a transformer to be used as your opening move without a link). Mostly because, unlike Giant Spider, the summon doesn’t do a whole lot late in the match where it is more likely you’d actually summon something and takes your mana when you do summon it.
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She would never be a Giant Spider tho, unless her mana colors was Blue/Green. But since she is Brown/Yellow she is unique for many new strategies and teams. I too want her mana cost lowered, so lets see what will happen, if anything will happen to her at all.
Is this the first chance to have two non-blocked troops feeding one colour? For example, if you had Erinyes and Giant Spider on the same team, you wouldn’t be able to hard-loop, but you would have the potential to make massive amounts of purple mana. I’m not seeing any obvious strategies yet, but something like Carnex, Giant Spider, Erinyes and Sekhma might be interesting. In that case, the summons are still mostly useless and inflate the mana cost of the transformers, but you’d be able to collect 4 colors to power your first transform.
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I keep beating my head, Stan. If it is something Ive missed with this troop. The only thing I can think of is that dragon teams can consist of two purple dragons in a more efficiency way: for example Kryst/TDS/Venbarak/Erinyes OR Kryst/TDS/Erinyes/Elemaugrim. And one explode from TDS possibly is enough to fill up Erinyes 50% or so of the time.
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No matter what, the double-summon (and the increased mana cost as a result) is a handicap. Not all troops need to be awesome, but it’s hard to figure out what the intent with this one was.
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Nah, you’d generally go with something like Giant Spider and Dark Troll if you wanted to flood purple mana with the troll up front. Then, if the troll dies, you don’t change your color profile all that much and you aren’t blocking what you are trying to feed, either. Erinyes does have the storm trait, which synergizes nicely with board refresh, but you need something on your team that does something if you want it to be effective.
And yeah, thats what it boils down to. There are simply no situations where you’d actually want to summon two Quasists at a time.
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Yeah, that’s why I was thinking a red/purple in front and behind. If Carnex dies, you’re going to have either a red or a purple summon to fill the gap, with another red/purple behind to keep your team eating all 6 colors. Generally, I don’t love the Trolls since I’d rather have a predictable transformer than an unpredictable spawner (Though, for whatever reason, I don’t mind unpredictable exploders). The effect could be something like using Infernal King and Sheggra back to back, though you’d need a good outlet for all that Purple, where a board full of skulls is its own reward.
Exactly this. Would be great with a lower cost purple creator with brown/yellow mana, and I just think we are generally disappointed that this is what we will get when it comes to a brown/yellow troop that creates purple. We know that if she doesn’t change for the better, our hope for having an efficient brown/yellow troop that creates purple is out. I am mainly talking about the endgame players when I use ‘we’.
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Have we discussed Tau?
If so, then this guy!
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I don’t think we’ve talked about Tau nor Wild Fang yet, here’s my opinion on both of them.
Tau used to be a half-decent troop (at least back in the days were traits didn’t exist and level 15 was maximum for all rarity troop cards), but nowadays he’s pretty useless. I actually wanna see the Impervious trait back on Tau, but not sure if it was the way to go in the first place, slightly better than the Empowered trait though. Also increase his stats from 4 to 6 if he kills the enemy.
Now for Wild Fang, kinda useful for early-to-mid game players but dead content for mid-to-end game players, maybe we’ll leave him as is for now.