Buffs to legendary troops


#1

Let’s not debate whether Maw or Mab are over-powered or broken… (they clearly are in my view but…) that’s not what this thread is about!

Nerfing the OP is one way to help balance and variety. The other is to buff up the UP to make them viable. So let’s get some suggestions for buffing up those poor naff legendaries…

Here’s a few from me:
Carnex spell explodes random red gems or skulls, and increase armour gain to +10
Behemoth increase gems destroyed by Attack / 2, and damage by 1 per 2 brown gems destroyed
Gloom Leaf remove stealing attack, and steal flat 5 armour per enemy, instead gain attack and life scaling with magic and purple gems in play
Keeper of Souls change to turn yellow gems to skulls and blue gems to purple, and death mark two random enemies
Orion remove randomness of damage, if there’s 10 green gems in play deal true damage

…and so on… Ideas? Thoughts?


Old troops rework suggestion
Possible Orion Buff
#2

I agree with this in spirit, and your selections seem reasonable. I wonder, do people see KoS as weak in invades? Is it just that the meta is now skull-mitigation heavy (Gorgotha, Bone Dragon)? I have a team I used to use pre-Mawcalypse that did all right with him as the ringer.

Kerberos badly needs some love, too…


Prepare for Kerberos/Giant Spider/Forest Guardian/Queen Aurora for many months to come
#3

I’m with Lyya - I like KoS how he is - a straight skull transformer. The retouched-IK attack could still exist on a new Legendary Troop though.


#4

I think KoS needs a little buff, I just see no reason at all to use him over BD…

(And a tiny nerf wouldn’t hurt BD, but it’s not that bad and that’s not the spirit of this thread)

How about move my KoS idea above onto Kerberos?

And instead KoS gets: give all allies +Armour (scale with magic)

Also I think at least one of the four brown/purple legendaries needs to change colour!


#5

I see your point, in that BD and KoS are very similar in their roles, but I’m personally more of a KoS fan (on offense, of course, he’s ridiculously terrible in the hands of the AI). I just prefer the control you get with transformers over the shotgun approach of spawners. It’s nice to have the option in this case.

Moving the effect to Kerberos could work; I wonder how one would justify the effect of the spell as applied to that troop. I’m always for more converters – in my opinion, they’re the most fun part of the game.


#6

Nah, we just need to bring the total number of legendaries up to … 60+ … hey it’s still a good plan!

  • Carnex could use a buff but only in comparison to Gorgotha - red/skulls is a nice change, I would limit the armor gain a bit though unless the cost was higher (which is fine if hes exploding red gems). Worth noting that Carnex’s traditional weakness of a lack of skulls is hard to exploit, whereas there are many ways to remove red gems - so this doesn’t make him super scary, which is a reason I like this idea.

  • Gar’Nok needs any kind of change, I haven’t seen him in about a year. Obviously, you’ve all forgotten he even exists.

  • Kerberos… ugh… legendary trait in particular is garbage, buffed summons or not.

  • Orion… yeah, what Jainus said.

  • Shadow Dragon I think has a major disconnect between his ability and his trait - if you’re doing true damage what do you care what your attack is at?

  • Sheggra… redundant traits and nowhere near as strong as Bone Dragon (because duh) but still plenty strong.


Keeper is a special case. Partly because I like him and have a lot to say about him, to the extent that it’s been posted about since I started typing this.

I think he’s only weak by comparison to Bone Dragon. And that is only because end-game troops have so much armor its guaranteed to kill even a Gorgotha and get an extra turn (sans Frozen) - and gain armor because it was felt that the troop needed to have magic scaling still (which I continue to shake my head over). Meanwhile Keeper here scales with … nothing. Give him a soul gain/multiplier on cast or something neat like that.

Legendary traits are also a sticking point. Summons don’t do anything if you don’t lose any troops, and while a Wight is a damn sight more useful than a Ghoul (better troop, doesn’t block colors, even contributes purple to Keeper), the issue is that Keeper would typically be on a team with a powerful attacker in the lead, and possibly with others behind that one. Popping a Wight in front has a chance to mess with that. Plus the 50/50 chance is trippy.

Meanwhile, Frozen Soul…

However, when they were on even footing (when Bone was a month old or so), Keeper’s capacity to target a color to guarantee extra turns was a reason to pick him instead of Bone - and of course, now, Bone can even nullify the extra turns with Frozen Soul.

I actually do think this is a case where something does need to be nerfed rather than buffed, IMO. (It’s Bone Dragon. Stupid troop.)


#7

I like the thought of Keeper of Souls gaining souls as part of its spell.

I would also like to see a legendary trait that deals 3 true damage to all enemies when an enemy dies.

In keeping with @Lyya’s comment about transformers, perhaps Kerberos’ spell could incorporate a transforming element to boost the effect. “Transform [color] gems to [color]. 10% chance to devour an enemy, boosted (x2) by number of gems transformed.”


#8

This can be really nasty in combination with the green seer.


#9

Jainus wants to buff troops. That is not the time for nitpicking, but for unconditional support!


#10

Haha… @jainus has always supported buffing some troops, as part of a healthy balanced diet of nerfing others…


#11

Some good ideas already in already, so I’ll mix them with some of mine.

Sheggra - Change Molten to gain 1 attack on red gem matches. Or, you know, anything other than what it is now. Even fire link would be better than this “legendary” trait. This troop is unsuitable as an attacker having pitiful attack for a legendary, so having two skull traits that inflict the same status effect is pretty lame. Even with a steadily increasing attack, I would consider her not a solid contender for the first or second spot, but in combination with Huge might be slightly more of a threat if your team starts getting picked off. Alternatively, just rebrand her as a full rear line troop, which she is mostly used as now, replace Aflame with Insulated, and replace Molten with “all allies gain 3 attack when I cast a spell” or “all allies gain 1 attack when an ally casts a spell”. OR give her back magic, have her spell target an enemy, dealing double damage if they are burning plus the spawn 6 reds + convert to skulls. OR make her spell deal split damage in addition to the spawns and converts, plus additional fixed damage for every burning enemy (if gone this route, Molten should at least be changed from targeting the first enemy to targeting a random enemy)

Bunni’Nog - Increase mana cost by 1-2 (or maybe don’t), and add “gain an extra turn” to its spell. This guy is basically discount Kerberos except for his last trait, which is ridiculously specialized, while countering pretty much nothing that actually matters. Maybe if we get a Legendary or Mythic knight troop that completely overtakes the meta (no, War does not count, a stiff breeze can already take him out) we might see him more. Fully or partially mana blocking every single skull spawner in the game and complete lack of resistance/reduction traits also don’t help his case for being a viable front liner or even second troop, which his traits and spell seem to imply it is meant to be.

Kerberos - His traits are a mess and nothing really synergies except Arcane. Replace Pyromania with a support trait like a link or Huge OR replace Gate Guardian with something that helps him survive that doesnt involve putting a super low attack troop in front of him (this is even worse now that Ghoul costs more so it mana blocks harder, doesnt gain attack with its spell so it trades skulls even worse, and is not viable to just use as a charge troop anymore since its gem destroy no longer scales with magic). Possibly boost his spell to regain some mana if the enemy dies. If he keeps Pyromania, add burning to his spell.

KoS - Maybe just add deathmark random enemy or two enemies to the spell? (giving it magic and having a minor armor to all allies would also be nice) Spell doesnt need a full rework. Soul legion could be buffed to 100% (maybe even 50% Wight, 50% Wraith). Wraith at least has good lockdown when it gets a skull hit. Soul Legion could also possibly be reworked to a 20-25% summon when an ally dies, which would give it that annoyance walling/factor that IK’s immortal has. If not summons, change his legendary trait to “gain 6 mana when an enemy dies”, which would probably be borderline abusive.

Gar-Nok - Add summon a few skulls to his spell, so at least summoning would give you a better chance to trade hits with your Orc. Move the attack gain to after the summon. Also his traits could probably use a rework. He can get massive attack in the last position… where that attack is usually meaningless, as these knock down drag out fights of last troop vs last troop dont usually happen much at high end. As a summoner type (ie., fairly slow) I dont see him overtaking the high level meta anytime soon, but those couple of changes would help a lot.

Shadow Dragon - Change Shadow Fall trait from attack to magic. This troop isnt really suitable as a front line troop, having no skull resistance, self healing, no Huge, etc. It is also a rather sizable mana block of color it converts to, which is nice since it self charges, but bad because it doesnt usually charge much else with the overflow. He is good at keeping yellow off the board and keeping his own mana up, awaiting your chance to get an extra turn again to re cast, while chipping true damage and poison on the other team, or as an extra purple “battery” used below another purple troop to catch your only yellows. Having its spell get stronger from using it at the right moment rather than attack seems like a better option.

Orion - Damage would need to be lowered if the randomness is removed. It should at least get the Berzerker treatment, having a minimum damage of 3 is a joke since there is no way his spell anything in one shot even if it hits for max, and the average damage is… below average (worse than most commons ascended to legendary, when factoring in Kingdom bonuses). Maybe add a conditional extra turn so he can actually take advantage of that Hunter’s Mark outside of serendipity or using a skull spawner. Jainus’ true damage idea is also nice (again, with more reasonable damage numbers if random was removed).

Gloom Leaf - Keep Corruption’s armor steal scaling with magic. Steal 2 attack from all enemies, and change all brown gems to purple to boost the effect, 5:1 (symbolizing corrupting the earth, synergizes with green Seer). Being able to loop to Green Seer and skull spammers with an extra turn could potentially automatically throw it into the OP category, though. Possibly increase mana cost by 1-2, but his current spell already has one of the worst ROI of any legendary spells, and he is still completely countered by a single Mang or Bone Dragon spell. (if buffed, also fix thorns to only deal damage based on how much was actually dealt to him, since he doesnt have to rely on a gimmick to be good anymore)

Carnex - Buff the armor gain. OR Change armor gain to based off magic, and explode all skulls (or a fixed amount at between 10-15 ish). You’ll generally have more magic than skulls to explode anyway, except at extremely low level. I actually think Carnex is fairly decent currently as an Impervious tank, but that pitifully low fixed armor gain generally makes you lose a lot more armor (and therefore attack, if fully traited) due to a retaliatory skull hit after using his spell if you are using it in this role, so slightly more armor would help mitigate the loss.

Behemoth - Conditional damage buff on it’s spell based on what is destroyed, seconding Jainus here. Instead of destroying gems based on attack, which could probably get a bit out of hand and would require attack buffing troops to take full advantage, having him gain a small amount of fixed attack (2-4) on his spell would also help him out as a secondary tank when paired with his immense trait and synergize with his potential to occasionally set up random cascades with Lay Waste.


#12

I was thinking about this the other day after using Carnex in an Impervious themed team. He really needs a buff. I’d also consider buffing his third trait, possibly doubling it’s effect to 50%. Given the prevalence of damage reduction tanks, Carnex needs to hit a lot harder to be a threat.


#13

I would LOVE to see this change to Shadow Dragon. It makes more sense for him to gain magic since he does true damage.


#14

I just got Orion and the thing that stands out about him is that he’s got a really low mana cost.

I mean, same mana cost as Boar Rider & Goblin Rocket but on his first cast he can do up to 30 damage and he gains magic with every cast? Plus hunter’s mark.

I’ve wondered why there aren’t many legendaries who are legendary because they do good damage at a very low mana cost. It seems like that would be pretty desirable.

I’m going to put him into circulation, personally. Seems worth trying out.


#15

Orion can be awesome… But usually isn’t…

And +1 to the idea of some faster legendaries… Tho generally legendaries tend to be huge and scary so don’t lend themselves to fast low cost spells…


#16

Maybe Behemoth. Granted there are so many different avenues they could take to buff him, but another way could be to drop his mana cost to say 12 and keep the rest the same. This lets him fire off just a hair quicker each time.


#17

It may be me, but when I think of something called a “Behemoth” I don’t envision a fast, cheap attacker. :slight_smile: Kerberos, perhaps?


#18

Orion: simple change, his spell does double damage to anyone with hunters mark.

Kos: give him soul accumulation, then at least four people who need souls (most everyone) there is another option to the dang valk!


#19

I’m actually quite surprised they haven’t addressed the lack of soul generators in 2.0. Valkyrie is totally worth using for her utility; there’s no need to give her a monopoly on resource generation, as well :stuck_out_tongue:


#20

It is simple math. I see alot of threads with whole bunch of valuable data, graphs and etc, I don’t know how you guys come up with those but those data are awesome. Start from the bottom, do a data with the least used legendary, then we can throw a bunch of ideas for devs to decide.