What 's the gist of what she said?
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Is there a link available that you might be able to post here, brudda?
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Yes… Gimme a sec
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Dude you need to chill out. Driving my point? You’re the FIRST person I responded to about my original post SIXTY POSTS PRIOR to this one! How is a post and 1 reply to someone who replied directly to me “driving my point”?
Those were the main points of what I was trying to say originally that you somehow took offense to. Are you disagreeing that new things to collect, achieve & discover are what keep people playing? Because I’m pretty sure that what you said:
Clearly tells me it’s about the CARROT dangling in front of you that keeps you playing. That carrot for you is discovering new things and solving the puzzles. For others the carrot is collecting or opening new content.
I’m sorry if the use of collecting as the example got you hung up on what I was trying to say but it was the easiest and most obvious example available. I never said everyone is a collector. I did say everyone has a carrot that motivates them to keep playing, and once the carrot is gone or determined to be unachievable, then they stop playing.
It’s all about the 
!
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Your mood seemed wrecked before Vangor that made the statement that he wanted to keep this thread civil. Lyya only approved Vangors point. I fail to see what she did wrong?
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Of course, she did nothing wrong. She’s actually a moderator. She moderated. (in the most civil and neutral possible way as well)
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@vanyel I don’t know if you saw my post in response, but please read it.
I think your point was clear and without venom, you have responded, the Horse has moved on to greener pastures and I now I kindly request that WE ALL let it go and allow this thread to get back to the original topic:
How to get efh313 a copy of Pharos Ra!!!??? 
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I have 3 of them, Mr. Bard. Shall I tell you the secret? 
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You can’t have it yet - he’s your ! Have to wait until another can take it’s place before you get him!
ps I did read it thanks! Was already typing mine when you did so didn’t see it til after. Just much slower to type on my phone. You’re 3rd party observations were right on.
Returning now to your regularly scheduled program!
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I think a lot of these threads end up like this because there’s no right answer.
Extremes on spectrums usually aren’t what we want, and I think we all agree here. The two extremes that no one wants are:
- Every mythic is craftable on-demand always.
- Soulforge doesn’t exist.
Some people want these extremes, but I think so many people agree these situations are bad those people are just going to have to be unhappy, from a developer’s perspective. It makes no sense to please the 1%, especially when pleasing them would give them no reason to keep buying stuff from the game.
Tossing those out, I think we have three major asks here. Some people want both of the first 2 of these:
- Rotation should be faster.
- Rotation should be predictable.
- Everything is fine.
For some reason, people feel REALLY strongly about those particular positions. I think it’s worth considering some things. One of them is “Soulforge is very new, that doesn’t mean it’s perfect.” If you’re holding the “nothing should change” position, always ask yourself why, and what you think will happen if it changes.
Me, personally, I think a faster rotation -or- a more predictable schedule would alleviate a lot of woes in the Soulforge. I’d be willing to trade “higher costs” to get some of those. I’m looking over the fence at Hearthstone. You can craft ANY card ANY time there. But the relevant cards are so expensive it’s not feasible to consider it a “fast ramp to T1”. In general I find these two things satisfy players most in F2P games, and balance is key:
- Predictable rewards are only “good” if they are expensive.
- Unpredictable rewards are only “good” if they are cheap.
Right now, Soulforge is “unpredictable” and “expensive” for mythics. Turning one of the knobs just a little bit might make it a lot more exciting for players. Turning one knob a lot means having to turn the other knob at least some to counteract.
But we all know what’s going to happen: the next patch will accidentally make the crafting cost -1 diamonds and people will figure out how to use it to get infinite money.
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Lol well said and finished with a joke! Well done young padawan, you may yet become a Jedi…
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A well worded assessment @Slypenslyde!
Kudos. 
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Sadly Anakin took down all the hopeful padawans… 
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And yet… Nobody blamed the lightsaber…
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Since the mythics are randomly selected and it just so happens that one of the mythics that a lot of people want has been left out of the crafting rotation for an extended period of time now, this doesn’t really track. Nearly everyone actually chasing the troop in the Soulforge has already completed every task to be able to craft the mythic, and now is just waiting. For an indeterminate period of time. They are no longer chasing the carrort, they are sitting there staring at it just out of their reach until it randomly decides to swing into their range.
By the same token there is also a chance that (insert mythic of choice) won’t just also randomly show up coincidentally when you finish gathering diamonds. The entire approach of making the selections random on a given week completely steps on the toes of having the agonizingly slow build up to reach the goal in the first place - having it be a purely random rotation only serves to probably slow some people down, in a way that matters very little long term and only instills frustration. When designing methods to keep players from their goals, it needs to not feel like it is constantly being yanked away, or people will just stop trying. And once anything you can do in the game stops moving you toward your goal in any meaningful way you can’t expect it to reasonably be called a “carrot” for the players.
Now, I’m not saying that reward-incentive based gameplay is not important, I’m just saying that the way soulforge is currently structured does not instill that. The two main gating aspects step all over each other in a way that is just not satisfying to the player or all that effective in keeping them from their rewards.
I agree with pretty much everything else, but I disagree with us necessarily having to have a rotation. There is no logical reason why every mythic can’t be always craftable with the costs as they are now. The costs and relative collection time for a single troop, of which 20 of the rarity teir exist and one is introduced each month, it is unnecessary to put another long time gate on, random or not. Having any kind of rotation does basically nothing to the long term goal (eg., “complete collection”) while only instilling short term frustration. For example, needing four mythics myself (assuming I don’t miss any in in the interim), I could be “finished” by June 2018 if I get them the second I finish my diamonds, or as late as July 2018 if I had to wait a full (non random) rotation for my last one, or June 2018 and an indeterminate amount of time afterward with a random rotation (could be none, could be a week, could be months). The relative time gap between “potential complete collection” and “actual complete collection” would be even smaller for anyone needing more mythics - 8 mythics would be “end of 2018” versus “beginning of 2019”. From a development standpoint, is the potential short term frustration really worth the tiny bit of long term goal management?
I also think that when “is it available in soulforge to craft right now?” is the final gate I have to pass through, even a not-random rotation, makes it less likely for a purchase to be relevant when it is made. The purchases themselves move the needle not all that much in the speed at which you can reach a specific target troop, and not at all if the troop keeps appearing in a window when you could have just gathered the diamonds without buying them. There is a fine balance to gratification and frustration to drive people into purchases in the first place, but having the purchases themselves not really doing anything to alleviate said frustration seems backward to me.
Thats not even to say anything about legendaries. I think the situation there is actually much worse, given the size of the pool, their slowly increasing average event key costs due to how many legendaries are in a given event pool, and the relative scarcity of event keys.
tl;dr -
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goal based reward incentives (“carrot”) break down when gameplay cannot move you toward it in any meaningful way, or when the divide between you in the goal is large enough to be seen as insurmountable (This is a similar problem that we had before the introduction of soulforge)
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monetization that is intended to draw purchases from people wanting to move closer toward a goal doesn’t work (or at the very least, is unlikely to draw repeat business) if it doesn’t actually move them toward that goal because there is another arbitrary wall in place
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The long term goal-mediating impact of having a random selection of mythics and legendaries (or even a fixed rotation really, but my expectations are sufficiently managed there) craftable at any given point is relatively minor compared to the short term frustration imposed on players.
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Not gonna refute that at all! That’s why I’m for scheduled mythics while keeping the weekly rotation, and against any mythic any time. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to have to wait up to 6-8 weeks for a specific mythic to show up after you’ve acquired the necessary diamonds.
We currently have to wait that long or longer for each kingdom event and arcane to rotate in. Don’t want to wait? Open some chests to try your luck for the legendaries & mythics or farm your arcanes. At least knowing a mythic will rotate in in 3 weeks means you can decide to forge something else in the meantime or wait for it.
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Well said, as always.
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I agree, with a weekly rotation and schedule some players will feel compeled to buy Diamond Offers to get the target Mythic on a certain week every now and then. Even if they use only gems there is still a small resource sink that can lead to Gems Sales. The feature must keep at least this chance to be profitable from a business perspective.
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Money? You need that mythic that finally showed up but don’t quite have enough resources?
Instead of adding frustration they should introduce more creative/positive outcomes from spending money.
I’m not spending money on it as it is a cash trap.