A New Mythic Approaches - Gargantaur


#202

I like what Mithran said and I think it follows a kind of thinking that’s good for analyzing where troops fit. It reminds me of some analysis in Magic: the Gathering.

The first thing that has to be dealt with is Gargantaur’s massive “setup cost”. 35 damage for 22 mana isn’t shabby but you can get more out of many other creatures. It scales up to 50, 65, 80, etc. Being realistic, I think expecting more than 2-3 deaths at activation time is unreasonable, so damage will usually be one of those 4 numbers, probably most often 50 or 65. It’s respectable. But you have to kill things to get there. Hmm.

Next, we want to look at “best case scenario analysis”. In this analysis, we look at a card’s best, average, and worst cases and think about how good they are vs. how often they might happen. Troops with frequent, powerful best cases or infrequent, still-good worst cases tend to be exciting. More often than not, the average case is what you get. Definitions work like that.

Gargantuar’s best case is a very strange game. The kind of shenanigans that makes him exceptionally powerful are if you can sac a creature that resurrects itself while also creating/exploding gems to get extra turns and refill the way you started this loop. I don’t think a loop with all of those qualities exists in-game, and if it does it’d probably take 4 troops to pull off so there’s no room for Gargantuar. Alternately: if you could find a way to consistently damage then heal Gargantuar you can boost him that way. Again, if you aren’t generating turns it’s not going to work, so I struggle to think of a troop combination that can do it. So the most likely best-case is when Gargantuar is your last troop with full mana vs. the enemy’s last troop with no options. You can activate it for a whopping 125 damage to win the game. But few troops are bad in that position.

The worst case seems like what happens when trying too hard to hit the best case fails. Let’s disqualify some obvious worst cases where almost every card fails and instead focus on some tight scrapes where cards can dig back out. For example, let’s say the board gets whittled down to 1v2, Gargantuar staring down 2 opponents. I think it does “average” or “below-average” here. It can hit for 110 damage if activated, but raising 22 mana by itself isn’t going to happen fast. Even so, there’s still the 2nd enemy to deal with. Sure, that third trait boost it as it takes damage, but how many hits is Gargantuar really going to take at that point? 2? 3? Once you fall behind, Gargantuar gets worse the further behind you get. Lame. I’ve come back from this via Crimson Bat or TDS many times, but I’m not sure how Gargantuar wins in that situation.

I think the average case is Gargantaur does 2 activations, one for 50 and one for 65 damage. It’s a decent sniper for a looping/exploding team, but I wonder if you wouldn’t want to just keep your loops/explosions going.

So same TL;DR:

Gargantuar’s best case happens when you start out by trying to lose the game. That best case isn’t a very good way to win a game where you’re behind. “I’m the best when you’re winning anyway” isn’t exciting. The worst case is the same worst case any card generally has, and the average case feels out-of-place for the kinds of teams it might fit on. If we get some really weird new other mythics that enable infinite self-harm loops, it’ll be at home on those teams. Without that, it’s good for a late-game snipe but is a very bad last troop standing. If it had any kind of resurrection chance via traits, this would get REALLY interesting.

Really TL;DR:

It’s a troop that’s only fantastic when you’re losing a little, but not by a lot. It turns that into a winning game. Find a troop that can turn “losing by a lot” into a winning game instead, or just run a team that doesn’t have to start losing to win. Needs support troops that don’t exist and are too broken to be developed.


#203

This the absolutely WORST MYTHIC in the game!

ORC, a common, is vastly superior to Gargantaur…

Very sad. Devs, please fix this troop ASAP!

NowayJoe2Go


#204

Cyclops is way better, and a monster if you buff his attack :smiley:


#205

I disagree that Cyclops is way better. An entangle quickly neutralises its damage.

I’ve been constantly running:

Gargantaur
Fel’Dras
Sol’Zara
Gar’Nok

Self looping Gar’Nok is not that difficult to set up, to boost his base damage. I use him to pick off weakened targets which then allows him to begin one shotting remaining troops. I find he works well in this all Orc team, requires more strategy and planning though than the general mindless explode fest.


#206

@Nimhain @Saltypatra

Besides leaving Gargantaur as a 37 damage pin cushion at the start of the match, can we get a text fix for the 3rd trait on console (Xbox One)? It still says Gain 2 Attack and Magic when I take damage, even though the trait does the proper 8 Attack and Magic in-game.


#207

I’ve been using:
Gargantaur
Fire Bomb
Fire Bomb,
Abynissia
I find Abynissia to be better than Gar’Nok, and both mythics will be nearly full once the Fire Bombs go off. Gargy ain’t the best mythic, but it’s a fun team for clearing out dungeons, at least.


#208

I’ve been using Tds Twb and double Pharos-Ra.
Its the best gargantaur build I’ve found yet.


#209

If every pork chop were perfect, we wouldn’t have hot dogs.

(There’s no rule that says each Mythic has to meet at least the average power level of all other mythics. That’s actually a really good way to lead to power creep. “Bad” high-powered troops are interesting because random other cards that release later can accidentally be their savior.)


#210

Then make him a legendary.
There’s chicken in many hotdogs anyway!


#211

I think Sol’Zara’s third trait is very bad, it’s even worse than Abhorath… :flushed:

Switching that to something like ‘deal 1 true damage to all allies on enemy (and ally) death’ would have been nice. Certainly, fits as more of a ‘Soul ritual’. :wink:


#212

Well the old gods are so last year :smirk:


#213

Question: should Garga have the same link with Orcs that Wulfgarok has with Wargares, would we love him a little more? Because if you don’t use Wargares, Wulfie is not very better.


#214

Wulf has the chance for 2 kills from 1 cast. (kill + devour). That’s infinitely more interesting than a troop that hits 1 target with no special effect.


#215

I think garganture is more of an anti-summoner troop with snowball ability. Xathenos is similar to this in that he gets stronger as the battle goes on.

Unfortunately snowballs are not useful in this game


#216

Has there been any indictation of a change to Gargantuar?


#217

Only if somebody else has almost killed an enemy for him, however. Until then he basically does nothing. This doesn’t make Garga better, of course.


#218

This guy definitely gets my vote for worst mythic in the game.


#219

Shall we start a poll?


#220

yes Please


#221

OK, I’m crap at polls but it’d be good to get other people to post thoughts on the worst mythic and have a poll to match.


"Worst" Mythic? [poll]