That right there is enough to make it so I can’t wait for 1.0.9. Just had a match, opening board had 2 areas with a 3 skull setup, my first troop with 19 health, his first with 19 trueshot. I study a bit, find a different move to negate both matches. Make move and new drops give him a match 4 skull killing my first guy, then a match 3 killing my second. SO MUCH FUN!
Just think how your life is enriched by experiencing these sensations of rage, frustration, despair and bitterness… Without TrueShot you’d be missing out on soooooo much…
3 Likes
That is why I typically just retreat from any trueshot team. When something you do for fun stops being fun, stop doing it.
But I thought, ok, I’ll give it a try and play smarter than the AI. smack Lesson learned.
Addressing several of the comments without quotes or replies, because there are simply too many by the time I got back here.
To those saying it is just as powerful as silence. You are simply incorrect. Silence leaves the core match-3 game mechanics in play. It is by far one of the most powerful combo denial abilities in the game currently for sure. But you can still work the board effectively waiting for it to expire. If your opponent does something stupid and creates a ton of skulls you kill them with skull damage. If they leave 4 of a kinds on the board you scoop them up so they can’t. You can bide your time until you can be effective again. A silenced enemy is far from defenseless and you still had better be careful. Also under the mass silence of TSO your troops come back often one at a time and with the multiple 10% chance you often get at least one or two rather quickly. This frozen effect stays in place as long as even a single troop has the debuff. Under this effect you have a single cumulative timer which if it doesn’t expire cripples your entire team. It also denies the basic functionality of defensive play. They make a ton of skulls, congrats, you match one and they steamroll you with the rest. 4 of a kinds left on the board due to transmution or gem creation? No biggie, they will just pick them up on their turn because you can’t do anything about it. All while you wait for a single timer to expire so you can actually play again. Sure maybe it expires quick, maybe it doesn’t. However, you have just given your opponent 5 turns of free reign before the odds are even you will actually purge the effect. During that time you have basically no defense, not even “standard” board control / denial.
To those claiming it doesn’t stop you from playing combos like KoS or sheggra. Of course it does. Pay attention next time you trigger sheggra or KoS. Do you really want to hand the board to your opponent in that state? I can promise you after most sheggra casts if I gave the board to the opponent I would be down minimum 1 often times 2 troops before I got it back. I don’t have KoS yet, but based on the way the AI often plays it I can tell you for sure what I do with it when it is used to create skulls and not clear them. So now not only can I not play defensively I can’t even cast my board control spells because I will leave the board in a state not suitable to be handed to my opponent.
To those saying it won’t be used because no one fields the cards today. The examples are plentiful of cards that received changes and suddenly became useful and thus immediately started being used. Look at our current Glade Warden or Centaur issues. Guess how often I saw those cards before the true shot and agile traits were introduced? Pretty much never unless someone was building a funny themed team designed to lose. People don’t use the two cards mentioned today because their current spells aren’t dramatically overpowered, and that is pretty much all that gets used. Once people realize how ridiculously broken frozen is they will get slotted and support teams will be built around them to shore up their weaknesses. By the logic of this crowd if I gave the Dire Wolf spell a 30 point damage addition it wouldn’t be used because it isn’t today. Horribly flawed logic there. Cards are used because they are effective. Card changes make them more or less effective causing them to be more or less used.
To those saying wait and see. If I watch 3 guys get hit in the head with a hammer I don’t need to get hit in the head to know it is going to hurt. We have spent years watching various games implement variations on common themes. Especially when it comes to games with troop skills. I could list a litany of TCGs, CCGs, and RPGs from the last 20 years that equal a mass amount of experience in this arena (as I am sure could most people on this forum). This kind of ability is exactly the kind of ability that causes huge problems in game satisfaction. It isn’t that it kills you outright, those abilities are certainly not a lot of fun to fight against, but at least the pain is over quickly so you can move on. This one leaves you shuffling along completely unable to do anything meaningful in the game, but not providing a clear win condition either. It is hands down the worst kind of ability. It is the worst not because it is game ending, it is the worst precisely because it makes the game over without ending it.
The simple solution to me is Frozen should stop the troop it is on from triggering extra turns with its spells. That troop only, and natural 4 and 5 of a kind matches are unaffected. In that form the spell is still powerful, it still hurts the goblins (I still can’t believe we are continuing to obsess over goblin counters, just delete the zaejin kingdom and be done with it already), and it gives players a tool against the combo decks that isn’t completely overpowered. You won’t see it in defense teams then because it won’t be global enough for the AI to abuse, and invade teams can still take advantage of it. The core mechanics of the game stay intact and we get a “cool” (copying @Jainus here) new effect to play with. I like the concept, but this implementation is flawed and game breakingly so. I don’t log into GoW to not be allowed to play. I could care less if the AI takes 5 or 6 turns, that is their turn and I knew they would be doing it before I ever hit Battle, I can look away or stare with bated breath while it occurs (usually with groaning and cursing if we are being honest). But on my turn I had darn well be able to play the game or why bother?
-Razlath
4 Likes
Hmmm that does all sound an over-reaction…
Frozen won’t stop you choosing and picking a move. It will redefine what is the ‘best’ move to make, you can’t just blindly take a 4 or 5 knowing you have the next turn.
Frozen won’t stop you casting spells. It will make you pause to think when is the best time to cast, just as you often do now when checking board position before firing a colour change, and so on.
Frozen won’t stop you attacking.
Frozen won’t stop you collecting mana.
So how exactly will this stop you playing the game or doing something ‘meaningful’? It’s a temporary status effect, for Gard’s sake… It will wear off soon, and the AI probably won’t cast it at the right time to inconvenience you anyway…
So let’s just chill out please?
(See I did it again)
10 Likes
Word. And you can use TSO to Silence the troop with the Frozen spell!
Or just continue to Scout teams and avoid them if you really don’t want to face them. But really, let’s see how it plays out rather than speculating what it may or may not do to the game.
Go play a test game right now. PvP your level or higher. Never take a 4 of a kind, always break it without taking it so you lose the extra turn. Leave all the secondary matches on the board for the AI to take. Leave all those juicy cascade skulls for them too. If you get a cascade extra turn make sure you make a horrible 3 gem match giving it up to simulate how you will be forced to play. Then go make a sheggra cast and match a 3 of a kind skull afterwards and let me know how much the AI thanks you for the pile of skulls it obliterates you with. The effect of this buff absolutely can be tested ahead of time. I have done it. It isn’t pretty.
Of course it is temporary. Until you get in the situation already presented in this thread with multiple team affecting debuffs all on separate timers keeping the buff effectively permanent. And don’t give me any noise about killing the mob or denying it mana. Once it casts you can’t deny anything, you can barely play. Before it casts you are talking about some very low costs spells. I have watched a single explosion from Gorgotha fill up way more than these two ask for. Even as a temporary without the abuse already pointed out, you are talking 3 turns on average of nearly complete ineffectiveness. You can’t shut down the AIs moves, it can make the completely brainless moves it makes today, but you won’t be able to punish it for them.
As someone who consistently cries about goblins, I seriously can’t believe you don’t see the parallels. The reason the goblins are so effective on defense is because the AI can make really stupid moves and it remains effective. The Extra Turns from the goblins largely allows this. What Frozen does is give every team that ability not just the goblins. The AI can make a stupid move, you can’t punish it properly so it just gets its turn back and trucks along.
The game centers around calculating moves, gem drops, and cascades. This ability turns off any reasonable ability to do that. Sure you get to swipe a gem, maybe cast a spell (assuming you can charge anything useful in any reasonable timeframe). But you don’t get to actually play the game. That is the main problem to me. Screw over the one mob who gets debuffed all you want. But don’t shut off core game components globally because one mob took a debuff.
Give me a break on the scouting bit. Just for fun I just scouted every team until I found a non-true shot or skeleton team. It took me 5 tries (and I consider that lucky based on past experience). Lets not even get into the 300 gold I spent doing so, my time is more valuable than that. If this ends up like the true shot debacle we can expect the same thing. And there is no reason not to expect that since that is exactly what has happened with every other overpowered team from webspinner to goblins to skeleton orbs, to true shot teams.
If you guys want to wait to get hit in the head with the hammer to see if it hurts, feel free. I am capable of using some basic reasoning and see a good likelihood of where this is going. Yet another overpowered ability / bonus / trait / spell / whatever being released with promises of watching it and changes if necessary. It will destroy previous builds and dramatically change the functionality of the game just like most of the recent broken changes did. Lets not forget your own personal crusade was caused entirely by the bonus additions which people also warned against. The same warnings were issued when True Shot was announced. Heck at this point you aren’t even watching someone else get hit with a hammer and wondering if it will hurt. You are being threatened with a new hammer and somehow convincing yourself this one won’t hurt.
The trait concept is interesting. With some basic tweaks it would actually be a great addition to the game. As it stands it is neither of those things.
-Razlath
4 Likes
I’ve been a gamer before CCGs existed. I’m just young enough that I didn’t need to mimeograph my first set of D&D rules.
This is no worse than Stasis.
It’s not plague rats with contract from below back in the forced ante days. It’s not original Shadow Lands, or Poets. It doesn’t come close to Number or Operatives. Way more fair than energy denial.
This is something that can be played around. You’re not seeing a first turn mind twist.
Hell, this isn’t even as bad as a set of bad rolls when invading Russia. Always use bidding and the MIT rules by the way,
Perhaps this will let the Priestess get an extra turn on her cleanse though. 
So much overreacting. .
I wonder what would be if silence was just introduced to the game. Would players say “wow it will completely break the game, I mean you can literally make infinite number of matches and your spells would still be empty, how are we going to play against that?”
Btw you don’t have to use shegra once you fill her, you can just wait for frozen to wear off and then cast, simple as that. Yes it would be bad casting shegra while 1 of your units is frozen. What could you do instead? Gather mana for other troops, match skull to attack the enemy, cast some other spell. So many options to play around frozen, it’s just a minor obstacle.
Noone does, it is less powerfull than a silence, you can still use all your spells, just have to be thoughtful about it.
If you have a cleanse troop in your Team you can do that right away… you couldn’t if the cleanse troop was silenced instead…
Yes but ONLY a single troop has this debuff, that is the point. Both spells that are meant to have the frozen effect are singletarget, don’t manipulate the board, don’t combo and you get the turn, leaving you with a board that only has a 3 match to offer (unless your Opponent already was sloppy and missed out on 4 matches and Combos to begin with).
And frozen fades just as fast as a single silence…
Under a TSOs mass silence a single troop coming back from it with no mana wont do anything for at least another round or two, and even then, it would have to be the right troop to come back from it first, to do anything meaningful with the rest of your team still silenced.
To those claiming it doesn’t stop you from playing combos like KoS or sheggra
Again, noone does, using these spells will still evaporate the first troop of your opponent, there will just be blowback after that, making the use of these spells more of a thoughtfull decision.
Instead of “herpaderp lucky cascade sheggra full go kill 2-3 troops in turn 3 damn i’m good!” you will have to consider the circumstances, is killing the opponents true shot or stone skin troop(whatever helms the Team) worth leaving skull Matches on the board for the opponent, how strong is the opponents 2nd troop and what is it able to do with the skulls etc.
Of course you can, frost giant is squishy af(uncharacteristicly btw), Ice Witch isn’t tanky either. You can still use your spells, you can still skullmatch,
Manacosts can be adjusted pretty fix, once the ability is seen in actual play.
Oh come on , you know that would just make frozen pointless, especially on a random targetting Frostgiant, but even targetted by Ice Witch that would make the effect a mild inconvenience at best. Sk(i)ullspawners wouldn’t even be affected, as the extra turns don’t come from their spells directly.
3 Likes
It doesn’t. That’s really the main gripe players taking a closer look currently have. The frozen effect applies to the whole team as long a single unit has it. You just need to keep freezing units that are currently not frozen and the effect will essentially remain forever. Because the unit you have just frozen starts out with a fresh expiry timer.
Did you ever play a Green Seer fueled by feeders? Now consider what would happen if you couldn’t do skull damage as long as any one unit is entangled, not just the first one.
3 Likes
One problem with the comparison. Green Seer’s likelihood of comboing is high. It also feeds the feeders that feed it.
None of the presently mentioned troops are capable of such things. I’d still rather face 3 Frost Giants and Orb/Deep Borer than 3 Rock Worms and Orb/Deep Borer come update. Why? Because Rock Worms feed themselves and Frost Giants will just end their turns, period.
If Frozen were added to a unit with good combo power, I’d agree that it’s too powerful probably. But with the given troops presented I couldn’t care less who tries the frosty units because I’ll just kill them before they go off.
Everyone’s too concerned about what Frozen could be capable of, instead of looking at what it can do right now. If they stick the status on another freakin’ Shaman type character, then yeah, I’d be pretty upset, but this spell is on niche troops without good use for the moment.
Just today I fought a team with both an Ice Witch and a Frost Giant (was a full Stormheim team ftr), I slaughtered the whole squad before a spell was ever cast, easy.
That’s where you see that freeze has so little effect that it needs to be applied to whole team with just 1 frozen unit. Applying it to just spells that give extra turn would be rather pointless. It would be useless 90% of the time that way. And you can just cleanse that 1 unit and the freeze is gone sooner then expected. There is a chance your troop will be cleansed the same turn frozen was applied to it (and that’s a 10% chance which isn’t small, look how much agile goes off with just 30%). Also there are units that are imune to all negativ effects, and a random hit from frost giant can hit it leaving you with no drawback. But consider this: in order for your opponent to even use freeze he needs to include at least 1 bad troop in his defense. Would you rather see enemy defending with true shot + skull generator team or with some freeze unit?
If there is a ‘freeze whole enemy team’ spell that puts this effect on all enemy troops then I agree there could be a problem.
We haven’t seen what the actual spells do have we? I suspect they just hit one enemy. The opponent would have to build a team with generators to recharge their freeze spell faster than the 2-5 turns the status will typically last. That sounds tricky enough, but the AI clearly isn’t smart enough to do that properly.
I think the rumours of our demise are exaggerated.
1 Like
I believe
Green Slime
Alchemist
Valkyrie
Ice Witch
Should do that quite properly.
A bit of a waste of Ice Witch’s original effect though, but I guess that as long as it does the freezing properly, it will be strong enough.
Besides, this will empower Ice Witch through her Arcane trait so badly… But maybe they’ll change her traits, I don’t know.
I’m not overreacting as in “OMG OMG this will rekt the game”, but more like “OMG OMG I can’t wait to see how it will affect the game and what I could come up with around that effect”?
But I guess the changes I’m actually more impatient to see are changes to the PvP system. There are to many abuses possible at the moment that leaves us wondering if we should better have a strong or weak defense team… It would be a shame to have a new effect to play around building a defense deck but ending up leaving my defense to a Peasant because I prefer to loose my defense battles…
Yep, good team… now what’s the chance the AI uses that cleverly enough to loop and keep you frozen for more than 4-5 turns?
Very low, I’d say… so what is the fuss about… Let’s take the heat out of the debate 
1 Like
PS - can’t believe I got three puns out of this thread already! Ice should be ashamed…
5 Likes
I don’t think it will even try to freeze more than one unit, but Ice Witch’s spell costing a mere 9 mana, she will charge quite fast anyway.
It won’t loop too much in the hands of an AI but enough to reinforce considerably Ice Witch through her Arcane trait. Then it won’t be a matter of 4-5 (ennemy) turn before she kills her target, still growing bigger in the process. I’m pretty sure it will work well.
But, yeah, I don’t think it will have a winrate anywhere higher than 40%, so I’m not saying it’s over powered, but it can and will be played 
From the troops presented so far I’m more than a little scared that it will be totally out of whack. I like to play Arena. I like picking Frost Giant, it’s an very strong arena troop. I hate going up against Frost Giant, it’s next to impossible to deny a two-color spell that takes at most three matches. From what I can tell by the screenshot the Freeze effect won’t be traited, meaning it will be available in Arena, on an already devastating spell that targets randomly. So yes, this is the perfect setup for the AI to chain-freeze you without any means to recover, while smacking you for high damage at the same time. Good luck climbing out of that hole once your escape plan, good board manipulation, is no longer available.
If you happen to have additional information in regards to the mentioned troops, please share.
Oh the drama.
Anyway, targeted damage. Nuff said.