Gouki,
WoW is PvE, and GW mode is considered PvP, 2 modes that are not even comparable.
Now if you could gain the BEST loot possible from WoW because someone else set a weak defense, then you would see this as an issue
WoW is also PvP and has loot associated with the PvP mode…
You are correct, but you cannot gain The BEST LOOT from it, you also don’t benefit from the winning of the PvP like GW.
Relax Don, people will eventually get off their high horses. Several posters in here being outraged have at one point in their GoW career been in a guild with an obvious botter/accountsharer, and profited heavily from their inhuman contributions. The question they would have to ask themselves is were they knowingly profitting from it or just too naive to realize it?
And the whole one troop defense is an exploit by definition, the Devs annonced several times that your defense teams should not influence your invade options, so abusing this obvious unentended behaviour is the textbook exploit. And you don’t get to hide behind the “but it didn’t hurt anyone” excuse for one thing and not the other.
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Is WOW really a team game, though? It’s not a MOBA or anything like that.
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The overwhelming majority of 1-troop defense users aren’t using it to exploit the system or gain an advantage. They’re doing it to avoid fighting the same monotonous battles over and over again. In other words, they’re using a shortcut to fix an annoyance that the Devs either can’t or won’t remedy.
There’s no way to paint guild collusion as anything other than a means to gain a competitive advantage.
And FTR, I haven’t used a 1-troop defense since the day Bone Dragon was nerfed. That should tell you everything you need to know about motivation.
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WoW is much more comparable to GoW than any moba. It is a PvE game that is guild based, were guilds fight for the top progression titles and first world/server kills, heavily profitting from out-guild Information trading, guild-hopping players and sharing of accounts.
Thank goodness I’ve never played WOW, then. Sounds like an antisocial experience all the way around.
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It doesn’t matter though why you used it, if you used an exploit, your personal reason for it doesn’t matter, as far as i can tell Don also didn’t want to profit himself, quite the opposite.
There is a line, it is shady, and if you cross it you lose your right to be outraged by others crossing that line.
I am not attacking you, i am just saying people really need to get off their high horses unless they are squeaky clean themselves, which most in here aren’t.
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It absolutely DOES matter why someone is using it. It amazes me that you’d suggest otherwise.
Let’s just agree to disagree and move on.
Oh and this is untrue, just so you know.
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if it does, than we can let off Don now as he wanted to help someone else with it, not himself, right?
Don’s attempt was a clear case of quid pro quo. Completely obvious.
That being said, Don was forthcoming, honest, and apologetic. It doesn’t serve any further purpose to single him out. It’s up to the Devs now to address it going forward and not retroactively.
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Also one more thing for the “victimless crime” of one troop defenses, you guys basically made 2 of my 3 invade options fun sucking chores, as i don’t like fighting one troop defenses, forcing me to go with trophy3 fight even if i didn’t enjoy the enemy team, so much for that.
Aside from it being a textbook exploit.
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I think intent matters, and further I think it’s the only thing that matters as far as collusion goes. 1-troop defenses keep getting brought up, and to me that is a non issue. Example 1, if a guild believes that having a 1-troop defense benefits them and uses it (similiar to PvP), I have no problem with that. Example 2, if a guild decides that they will gain an advantage by putting up a weaker defense against a certain guild as a strategy (similiar to the earlier analogy presented about benching players after you qualify for next round), I also have no problem with that. Example 3, if a guild conspires with an opponent to fix a match or a score, that is NOT ok. All 3 situations may use a 1-troop defence, but the difference is that the first 2 are decisions made solely for the benefit of your own guild and without discussing things with an opponent. Example 3 involves making a plan with an opponent and making decisions for the benefit of an opponent and to the detriment of other opponents not involved in the conspiracy. That’s also why I think only things like emails or chat logs can show this sort of thing, automation would incorrectly flag the second example.
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That’s exactly what was offered in the PM. It wasn’t purely altruistic. That said, Don had more guts than most to admit he was a part of the situation. I don’t see anyone else stepping up to make such admissions.
Don isn’t a villain. I just completely disagree with him and others in this thread about the ethics of guilds working together to give each other a free pass in GW.
Ultimately, I’m just generally disappointed by the the devs response to this exploit. For me, it was just the final straw on a mountain of straws.
Finally, thanks to everyone that sent well wishes in PM and in threads. I really appreciate them. I adored the laughs I shared and fun I had with many of you. I wish all of you guys the best.
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I never said it was a victimless crime. Every action has consequences, even if they’re not obvious.
The point is that there was never an attempt to undermine competitiveness. It was 100% an attempt to avoid boredom.
So while you can blame me for setting a 1-troop defense, I can blame the 100’s of people that put up Wraith / 2 x Courage / Bone Dragon teams, which was also an exploit. Ultimately the Devs stepped in and nerfed Bone Dragon, which helped both of us.
The fact that you want to say “an exploit is an exploit” without ever considering motivation is just an impasse with me. Motivation ALWAYS matters.
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I know in one specific thread I mentioned certain veteran forum users were acting troll’ish, including you. However, I was commenting on your behaviour in that thread, not in general. I think you’re good for the forum, and enjoy reading most of your posts. So if that wasn’t clear before, I bear you no ill-will.
[quote=“DonBoba, post:107, topic:23674, full:true”]
Oh and 1 last thing. I am sorry to have made the offer i made. I see many people thinking of it as very bad thing, so sorry for me ever doing it. I accept i was an idiot thinking it wasnt big of a deal.[/quote]
Based on your comments and history, I believe this is sincere and I believe you. I don’t understand why you would think making a deal is OK, but for whatever reason you did. However, once you realized the community was against it, you came forward, apologized, and promised not to do it again. So despite the mistake, how you handled it after things blew up was impressive. So hopefully you don’t just leave the forum as the result of this.
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I’ll never leave the forum completly as long as i play the game. I will just severely reduce my amount of posting.
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Well the outcome matters much more to me than the intent. I am not big on grey areas.
Let’s just say we agree on one-troop defenses being the least nefarious of the exploits used or condoned by some people that ride on their high horses in shining armor as symbols of righteousness in here (omg that is so fitting for a Knight event week!).
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