Dear devs, please fix your cheating AI on console

This [quote=“GoldPhoenix0, post:112, topic:20562, full:true”]
Hey @HADuke, again, thanks for putting in the effort for posting up the video. I did end up watching the 4 battles from your video and I do admit that there were some really close battles in there where it came down to the wire. From what I can see (again, my opinion), one of the biggest issues that I can say with your devour team was that half of your troops are gem transformers or destroyers. On both PC/Mobile and Console, when I play with those types of teams, there are many mixed results which results from that, which generally does not guarantee that you will get an extra turn, and can possibly even set up the opponent for some 4+ of a kind matches. I’ve always found them to be a double edged sword, although I’ll generally hold off casting until (if I have control) I can guarantee an extra turn.

The Dragon Soul match was painful to watch, just because of how close it was. I did notice that there were some instances where 4+ of a kind board matches were being left in favor of using spells, which did cause the board to change a bit, which would have given the AI a better chance of landing skulls. The Great Maw team on the other hand was a team build to feed as much mana into the Maw asap, and gained huge stats.

Again, from what I can see, I’m not trying to make excuses, from what I can see, the issue is not with cheating AI or standard board drops, but with moves which greatly modify/clear the board. I do have to say though, that changing this code would mean changing it for BOTH the AI and player, and I have also seen may cases where the luck is in the players favor on board clearing/mana transforming/destroying spells. I’m not 100% sure this would be a universally loved change though.


I never said I wouldn’t watch it, just that it was impractical to watch a 48 minute video (and referenced that others who suggested putting in some time stamps of relevant sections). FYI The next patch has now been delayed by 48 minutes, you may now blame @death for that wink wink.


@RyuuHou24 - That second video does seem pretty annoying. We may need to look into the code not spewing out that many of the same gem in a line how it did. That being said though, the board dropping code does not take into account what player’s turn it is, and for some other lucky player out there most likely would get a similar drop. We may need to investigate what is going on in that case, thanks for the video.
[/quote]

This quote right here… I’m calling bullshit on. I have very SELDOMLY had gem or skull drops from the skydrop in a row like the AI seems to have at nearly any match. I don’t understand what is so difficult to see here. Why the devs and the dev brown nosers can’t clearly see this and KNOW that this is a problem. Way too many players are complaining about this and a good friend of mine has completely quit playing this game because of this crap. Like I said above, this only happens in ranked PVP matches. I just played (and won) 10 casual matches in a row against teams WAY higher ranked than me. And guess what? It was like I was playing kingdom challenges and the AI had NO clue what it was doing. SEVERAL times in those matches the AI skipped over extra turns and skull matches. Not once did a cascade of NEEDED gems and skulls fall in a row for the AI.
However, I go back to ranked PVP and lost 3 matches in a row due to the before mentioned problems.

Stop with the excuses. Stop calling it luck. Look into it. Find the damned problem. Fix it.

Maybe if you’d stop insulting people and hypocritically dismissing those you disagree with while simultaneously complaining about them dismissing you, you might get a better result but go ahead and keep smashing your head into the keyboard if that’s what floats your boat.

And that goes for some people on both sides of this argument, btw.

2 Likes

I don’t know if you are lumping me in with the “dev brown nosers”, but I am being truthful with you when I say that I don’t see what you’re seeing. I’m level 900 and have been playing this game for over a year. I have times when I am so frustrated by my luck that I want to scream. I get that. I really do. Based on my own experience on console and the gameplay video that I’ve watched from PC/Mobile, I also believe that there is something different about the gem-refreshing code that causes these unusual strings of matching gems to drop in on console way more than it does on PC/Mobile. @RyuuHou24’s second video was a perfect example of that. Some players who play on both platforms agree that this causes the game to be more streaky on console than on PC/Mobile, where it is more stale and predictable.

I proceed from the belief that a streaky game can bite me if I am not careful, so I take steps to limit the damage that luck can do to me when I play. That includes team design, choice of opponent, using an appropriate team against a given opponent and thinking about the consequences of certain gem matches when I am in battle. If you want to talk about strategy, these forums are the perfect place to do that. There are lots of players who are willing to help you here if you’re willing to learn.

8 Likes

Hey @HADuke, Can I confirm what difficulty you are playing on? From the above mentioned description, it sounds like you could be playing on Normal difficulty.

In normal difficulty, this enables a feature called “Combo Breaker”, to which there is code which modifies the “luck” of the dropped gems to be in your favor. This also makes the AI a bit more unpredictable, where it has a better chance of missing extra turns and skull matches.

To make things fair, this Combo Breaker code is not enabled in Ranked PvP and difficulty can not be chosen. This would explain why the board seems to be more luckier in the opponent’s favor in Ranked PvP compared to quest, challenges and casual PvP battles, as the board drops are no longer being modified in your favor.

6 Likes

Not sure if this had been mentioned before, but you can’t compare a perfect playing AI (sees every match) to a non perfect playing human player (who misses 4/5er matches sometimes).

Since those missed 4/5er matches often lead to 5 to 10 more matches, the actual stats of your test go more like 75% of 4/5er moves to AI, 25% to player.

Hence… the AI DOES get way more moves then a human player.

This one you can easily fix by making the AI not perfect either…

AI still misses 4 or 5 matches occasionally. The AI also can’t set up combos on purpose. The AI will also make very dumb gem transformation moves.

3 Likes

sorry but i love the fact that ai takes the extra turn if i miss it.
it gives at least a minimal level of chellenge for me so that i could enjoy the game

if ai is as stupid as the ppl who dont even try then the game would become super boring

i can understand the frustration about gem dropping, if that ever is bugged in favor of the either side then that should be fixed, but not compensated by nerfing ai move choice

i know im pc/mobile player so i cant really speak of the console ai but if that was the direction of new ai development (that will eventually go to pc/mobile too) i would get very disappointed

2 Likes

I figured that one of the developers would mention something along the lines of Casual PVP being easier. That’s why I play the majority of my casual games on either Warlord 3 or Warlord 4. This way I can get more gold and more souls. Like I said in my post above; 10 wins in a row on Casual PVP without the AI doing anything ‘lucky’. Go back to Ranked PVP and I lose 3 in a row due to ‘lucky’ AI.

Anymore ideas or excuses? This can go back and forth for weeks and it’s not going to come to a valid conclusion. Perhaps if I spend a few hundred bucks to get some of these path to glory offers, I can use all that gold and all those souls to better my kingdoms and troops so I can have a better chance at getting ‘lucky’ against the AI in ranked PVP matches. Let me just head to the bank and get a couple hundreds out and send them to you.

You do realize what the word casual means, don’t you? In gow terms, casual means the AI cheats in your favor.
Ranked pvp, cheating is off.

If you don’t think your luck is equal to the AI, it may be just your skill and team isn’t equal to the AI.

4 Likes

@Annaerith
These is little bit of cross term talk in this thread: 1. console AI and 2. console gem drop algorithm. The developers have clearly stated above IF something odd is going on with the 2. the gem drop algorithm they will fix it.

Now with the introduction of gem priority for Defends players have a direct influence over a portion of the AI choices. It that feature should be coming to PC/mobile.

Spending money in the shop will not improve your drop chances. These have been repeatedly stated to be unbiased according to the devs, to the point where they’ve re-run sanity tests and published the results. At that point, you can choose to disbelieve them, but there’s not much they can do to prove the fairness of the RNG to you beyond the statistics they’ve already reported.

If spending money did allow you to “buy” luck (which it does not), the devs certainly wouldn’t be silent on that feature. Not saying anything is a terrible way to advertise a perk.

Why do some people feel like they must be rude in their discourse? The developers are not your enemy. Polite conversation is sufficient to bring awareness to issues; impolite phrasing just raises hackles.

11 Likes

Absolutely totally and utterly agree with that last paragraph. I often wonder if some people would be so bloody rude and offensive if they were talking to the devs or anyone else for that matter, face to face.

6 Likes

i am aware of that, my reply was not about this thread in general, i was commenting @Mad_Butch 's suggestion how to change ai, which i didnt like (and explained why)

The console AI actually sometimes misses a 3 skull attack or a 4/5er move.
That made the AI on the console more fun in my opinion, as it felt more human.

Have you played the console version? If not, and you have a chance, try it… You might like that aspect better. Because now your shooting it down without ever trying it…

1 Like

And you did say this:

If you put that next to what I posted, you’re calling everyone who ever misses a move “stupid ppl who don’t even try”.

Which is pretty offensive, for no reason…

let me explain :sweat_smile:

i know that

i wont have any chance, noone i know owns a console, its not popular here

due to this (and some other unknown reasons) i got the impression that you are suggesting ai shoud miss much more 4+ matches then it already does on console - if that was so then it would indeed mean its degraded to the level of human who is not even trying or is too stupid, missing one match rarely i guess would be acceptable (however i would have to try that indeed to have an opinion, for now taking 100% of them as it is on the pc feels nice to me)

for example for me the 4+ ratio doesnt feel like 25% to 75%
its more like 45% to 55% :slight_smile: (in favor of ai) as i only rarely miss the 4+ ones xP if the ai was degraded to miss those extra 4+ to match your statistic of 25% 75%, to you the balance would move maybe to 50% 50% but to me it would not mean that, instead it would actually get that i get 75% of 4+ matches and the ai stays with remaining 25%, looking at it that way dont feel offended if i call that “an ai as stupid as ppl who dont even try” it doesnt actually offend anyone in particular, its just my own measurement name of ai cleverness level in that suggestion

no, certainly not everyone, but if someone misses as many moves (from my point of wiev its 25%-50% missed of moves that you could take) then im not wrong saying the person didnt even try (OR the other option)! since all you need to do to not miss a move is wait few seconds to get a free hint.

No, I din’t mean more misses… that would make it stupid :slight_smile:
But some misses would be cute… Like a 5% chance or something.

1 Like

okay :slight_smile:
well lets then change the subject a little coz im not getting one thing:

if:

ai already missed 4+ sometimes

and

you dont want ai to miss more

but

you want ai to miss for example 5%

then what does it mean? you want the ratio ai misses to be increased or lowered or just revealed to players? i feel lost, what actually are you suggesting? xD (speaking strictly about console ai now)

There are two separate things.
1: Missing moves related:
The console AI as it plays is fine, I would like the PC version to have misses, just like the console version.
(I think this is where the confusion came from).

2: 20 moves in a row related:
The never ending cascades are a PITA, if you can’t/don’t want to fix this, then at least add a skip button, because I have actually just quit the whole game an booted it up again, just because I was sick of waiting to get a turn.

Lol, how can you skip something when there’s no idea as to how many turns there’s going to be? IT’S RANDOM!