Ups i commented pretty much the same thing you did but haven’t seen your comment so sorry for doubling it xD
This discussion takes an interesting turn towards financing of the F2P games.
Funny, because a few days back I was just thinking about it. I play for about two months now and so far I am VIP level one. I’d love to go higher, but… the things at the shop are either not very interesting (weapons for around 5 euros), easily obtainable by playing or way too expensive. I’d like to show more support, but buying things I don’t need or simply want is not in my nature It would be cool to have more options to buy something small, not necessarily powerfull but more… I don’t know. Meaningful? Funny? I would chip in more often then Like give me a chance to get one VIP key for an equivalent of price of beer
I’m sure you guys are giving this a lot of thoughts and I don’t want to teach you or anything, just wanted to share how I feel about the in-game ‘real’ money purchases. I still love your work and will get something new from your shop soon
The absolute main focus should be ; how to make my game inviting and addictive. Not how to make my game generate money on the existing (low) playerbase. Very little on gems of war is inviting apart from the gameplay model, its art and the slotmachinesque rewarding. Definately the current monetization options are not inviting in the slightest. I have often bought content in many games ive played, still buy content in games i play but i wont lie… i have never bought anything in gems of war because its simply a waste of money, when you buy keys for instance for 60 bucks and are wholly dependant on luck… that just doesnt cover the expenses. People want to know what they buy. The single costume you can buy for again a shitton of money only 1% of all players will even consider is only 50% gold/souls higher than the ingame costumes therefore not worth it. VIP could be getting alot more customers if the prizes werent so damn high and the top shaved rewards were more interesting. Lets say VIP 5 would not cost you 60 bucks, more people would get it just to be able to open VIP chests. More people would be attracted to the game knowing a portion of its content wouldnt be locked away behind that high mountain. Be realistic… this isnt a full price - store game in the slightest. Its a good game, better than alot of games, but its compact, very limited. These prices are WAY too high to generate consistent revenue. Im afraid i might come off harsh here but i dont want to see this game get worse over time by bad choices because of these money struggles that can so easily be solved by opening up to more demographics of classes and adding options that take barely any resources.
Right now the only affordables to the general public that doesnt sink their bank account into this game (-which is undoubtly a very very small amount of people) are a bit of gems that can be easily obtained in the game itself by completing one or two sets of daily tasks. How is that inviting? If you want to increase the playerbase then give more volume to the game, as i said before people look for more gameplay not for less. More volume = lower thresholds, and the bits of tips i gave in the prev post.
Thanks sirrian, i just want to help with a game i love to play and i also want those who work on this game to get good money out of it so the game doesnt suddenly has to close its servers after ive put in years of time on lvling every damn card i have lol. Im not trying to belittle anything im just direct and honest just so thats clear.
One thing that has a nice value to be bought are guild seals. I think prices are way to high though.
1 key should be 3$, 2 keys 5$, 4 keys 9$. And that would see a masiv increase in purchase. A price of 9$ will give same profit if it’s bought 2 times more and more profit if it’s bought 3 times more. And it would be bought about that much more. Also many would probably go for buying all 3 options because some people can afford spending 3+5+9, 18$ on a game a week. This way they will still buy it but less consistent when it’s not that much rewarding.
Absolutely! We’re all friends here, and your points are clear, and well-made. That’s one of the reasons I wanted to jump in and discuss!
I personally think we strike a nice balance between the two.
If our main focus was making money, we’d have implemented an energy system. Fortunately, our publisher 505 Games, are great guys who trusted us to make a game that was free of energy systems, so we could focus more on the gameplay.
All I’ve really been arguing is that reality dictates we spend equal resources on making sure that the money gets made in the safest most reliable way. For us, and many other F2P games, that is a gachapon mechanic (lucky dip, keys & chests, etc…)
I completely respect your opinion on the value of the items in our shop… but it turns out that when a F2P game looks at its playerbase, as a whole, a gachapon performs really well… especially for a game at our stage of evolution with decent mid-sized-and-growing playerbase.
The good news is that Gems isn’t in any danger of closing servers any time soon, it’s been steadily growing for 2 years with little-to-no advertising. We noticed the other day that our concurrent users on Steam alone (our smallest of the 5 playerbases, I think) was triple that of the recent AAA title Battleborn (or so I was told). So definitely not a low playerbase, but not in the millions where we’d like to be!
Oh thats also a nice idea yah, might also open players up to the concept of VIP with the early vip key gets while it has low threshhold. Thats really the main issue on revenue right now, too high threshhold. Alot of small expenses are much more attractive to customers than a single high expense. Upvoted.
I am definitely looking for something to spend a few bucks on, 5$ (or euros) is about the perfect price. I would definitely buy missing event weapons with it, but something like this to get a VIP key, yeah, please!
I might even be enticed to spend this every so often until I get to the level where I simply unlock VIP keys…
By my reckoning, my enjoyment of GoW compared to what I have spent on it would mean I owe them about a 20 euros, but I won’t just throw it at them, sorry. (I once bought a daily gems and am VIP 1 atm).
Very nice suggestion, it would present to players what they can get with VIP keys and make them want to reach VIP level. And a bunch of small prices is a lot better then a single huge purchase like @wskill said. Anyone would rather spend say 10$ a month then spend 30$ one month and not spend anything in next 2 months.
Yeah, some good suggestions here, thanks folks!
We are actually planning to revamp a few store options in 2.2 to hopefully include some better value!
Sorry for being fussy, but “Manicure” is a beautiful lapsus digiti
Those big nails really need some manicure
When it comes to shop items, its really all about perspective. Its easier for people to buy a bunch of lower priced items over the long run than it is for people to pay upfront some high priced item that will benefit them immediately and forever after that. Nit-picking what’s currently available when it should be something else is not the issue. Making sure that the player is receiving the full amount of VIPs for the amount the player spent on said item(s) is.
Take me, for example. I’m dissuaded from buying the Daily Souls pack or any pack of similar amount because I’ve been given less than the VIPs I should be getting. The fine print said I would receive one VIP point for every single dollar I spent. I thought the 25 VIP pts for a $6.99 item was just a typo. I expected to get 35 VIP points after I bought it. I was awarded only 25 VIP pts. I did submit a ticket and it was forwarded to the development team because that’s all the 505Support team could do. No word since and thus made no sense for neither my brother, nor myself to buy from the shop. We might with the weekly kingdom bundle but why would we when it offers a weapon we already have. Perhaps, we would if there was a discount? Or maybe offer one with the weapon while the other without the weapon for the same price? Then again, it would make sense if the weapon could also be ascended much like troops and heroes can. Ooooo there’s an idea.
already requested that for u
Mana drain is really on way too many troops now, heck it even makes lower rarity cards completely dwarf moloch. Something really must be done. 9/10 teams i see have atleast two cards w it and as op went against it and i followed up on… its the definition of frustration and sabotage. Combined w low mana cost and even start w full mana… Cmon man…Moloch looks like a green card now._ and NO dont buff him, nerf (or remove) drain severely on non legendary cards.
Agreed. I just quit if I ever fight a team with more than one of the cheesy empowered mana drains. Seriously doubles the amount of time I have to spend battling.
I’d have to wholeheartedly agree there. At least on the fact that you managed to direct almost 1500 hours of my attention to the game (not counting the forums) without pushing me away with your methods of generating money.
Now on to
Yes, basically this. Things like League and Warframe subsist mostly on the sales of cosmetics, but both are huge comparatively and can get away with this incredibly easily because of how many players buy into it and how much return they can get on the investment of making something that doesn’t actually effect the game at all.
Honestly, I think GoW is marketed fairly well, there is a diverse selection of things in the store to appeal to different kinds of people, and for a game without a trade system and player-based in-game economy, I think it does incredibly well for itself.
And no I’m not saying that you should add a trading feature. That has already been discussed, and Sirrian has already stated his views on how that might negatively impact several, and I wholeheartedly agree with him. That would not only add balancing issues, complicate crafting how new players experience the game, and require more oversight than a team even double the size of the one they have now can handle, but it would also incentivise things like hacking, stealing other peoples accounts, and players just farming endlessly to trade with others and get benefits without doing things as they are designed to be done. Which, oh yeah, means more bots. And we don’t want that. None of us do.
I’d like to preface the next part of my reply with the fact that I am not a game dev, I have not gone to college for this, and I have never been in their shoes. The following is just speculation from someone who takes a passing interest in balance and design and has actively observed and examined a variety of different games, F2P, P2P, and P2W alike. I do this as a hobby, not as a career or part of an institutionalized education. So take it with a couple grains of salt if I am way off on these. If I am, I’ll be happy to listen to counterpoints and be steered in the right direction.
Also to be noted, I am not trying to tell anyone how to do their job, assuming anything is or isn’t being done, or trying to break any new ground. I am simply trying to understand things from a Dev’s point of view.
If I were to be a financial planner for a game like this, which I am not, in the state it currently appears to be in (I can not say the state it is in, I do not have exact numbers), my first goal would likely be to start trying to get Gems of War out there more, and further expand the player base. However, I also know that as-is, the leaderboard and reward system is geared towards a point in the game’s history with far fewer players, because since it has been released, the amount of people playing has increased drastically. Probably even exponentially.
I believe that Sirrian said something about this system being overhauled in the next couple (major) patches. So this is great, they are already working on this, and that should give the game more “room” for people to feel like their PvP battles after 1900 rating matter. And that is huge, which will likely allow for a better, more future-oriented system, much like they did with the guild League system. Which is wonderful.I’m looking forward to that, though I don’t know if I’ll be playing when it first launches. It might take a while for the game to reach a state in which I’m not outright bored PvPing in. Which, as I discussed in another thread, is no fault of the devs.
So with that planned and out of the way, lined up for launch (which seems to be the case, as the devs are far better at this than I), then I would probably want to focus on player retention. Which comes to post-game balancing. Which is another topic on its own that I won’t get too far into because that gets very controversial very quickly. I think that the devs have a far better idea of what they are doing and I have nowhere near the koala-fications to even start to think about what they should do there.
Then there is monetization, which I think the devs already do incredibly well considering that they have to go through their publisher for approval and have a relatively small player base compared to what they could have. Could some things use re-designing to make them more future-ready and sell-able to a larger playerbase? Maybe. But I’m actually really impressed with how well the shop is designed. There are options for pretty much whatever you want, rotating stock on certain things to keep them interesting, and ways for players to just contribute more to the game if they want to support the devs.
Some things that might be useful if added:
- An option to just “buy” VIP points, giving a slightly higher return on them without any benefit outside of the points themself. More VIP points per dollar spent than you would get with other options, but just the VIP points.
- Perhaps something to look towards later but armor other than Deathknight that gives the same bonuses, possibly rotating so that there is some feeling of exlusivity to getting the type you want. Makes players feel better about having what they do and creates a bit more demand there. Plus there will probably be one or two “collector” types that just want to “get them all”
- A slightly different take on the color swap idea, or maybe even something to add to it. But maybe kingdom-centric packs that contain the recolors for all troops in a kingdom (that have been released), rotating weekly-ish after you eventually get around to having enough recolors or alt designs to justify it. Again, long-term idea, aimed at a future where your player base continues to grow.
Also, sorry if I’m late to that discussion. I don’t pop in here as often any more, so it takes me a while to get around to things. Hope you don’t mind the text wall, and thank you for reading this far. ^^;
On a final note, I wish to add that the devs are awesome, and probably already have thought of or have in works many of the things that I put forth above. I am by no means perfect, or even remotely educated or trained in this area. At least formally.
You win this year’s longest post award btw
There are three other people that could easily go to off the top of my head, but thank you, I think?
Nooooo, but i was going to get that reward.