Sorry i misunderstood, hence why i tried to delete when i realized my error. I was a bit disappointed to see they didn’t hold to their word on the placement issue.
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chance somewhere between 1/1,000 and 1/10,000 beats chance being zero. You can’t know that it’s effectively never going to happen, because as long as chances are NOT zero, it CAN happen.
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Yeah, and you can win the lottery, but you shouldn’t build your life around it, nor be upset if they get rid of the lottery.
As I said, I think there are two camps: One that liked any chance to get Legendaries/Mythics and another that really needed a way to get more lesser-rarity troops. The people that want Legendaries/Mythics have lots of other ways to get them. There was no good way to get the lesser-rarity troops.
I think a good compromise could be if they slightly expand to 10, introduce Legendaries/Mythics into the rotation, but then also have variable drop rates as before.
Cheap-ass Gold and Glory chests. You might want to try them.
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Glory Chests also give Epics, Legendaries, & Mythics. You need 16, 6, & 1 copy of those respectively. You might want to try them.
Meanwhile, we need 191 copies for Commons & 91 for Rares. You got any to Mythic yet? I’ve got plenty of Epics & Legendaries to Mythic. You got any Commons/Rares?
I’m sorry not everything in the game appeals to your exact needs… 
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My exact needs are getting more than a Mythic per semester. In the meantime, even trying to get a Mythic can cast my economy in a months-long disarray.
On the other hand I don’t need Mythic Peasants right now. Or ever. Mainly because I have them, as does everyone in due time, also because being Mythic can’t do all that good to that troop.
To be clear: ALL my Commons and Rares are Mythic bar those of the most recent Kingdom. Not all my Legendaries are because, surprise! they are MUCH more rare. How did I come to such an awesomeness? By playing a lot and having a lot of Gold and Glory and Guild keys.
So I get a lot of effing Common and Rare troops - we are talking hundred Commons and Rare each week - that are only good to be disenchanted.
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I know it been change but how do we know wich troop we can summon with them?
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By clicking on the question mark when selecting a stone.
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Ty of course it was obvious 
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I love the text in the screen taransworld posted.
Event keys - for event kingdom troops…
Really?
They’re often as much as 50% non event troops and items! I bet you’d have a case for a mis-sell if you contacted Sony or MS.
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I think your argument fails on it’s own. If you open enough gold keys you can drop a substantial number of Commons/Rares to upgrade new kingdoms released. Here is my collection of Merlantis, the newest kingdom we had, and a picture of a Watching Capybara to brighten the day of everyone here.
I’m not even hoarding gold keys and aside from Azura i got it all WITHOUT any help of the Summoning Stones… Once Skadi drops maybe i’ll finish Azura with my Glory Keys if i’m lucky as i have currently 1392 keys and that’s a very shy number compared to other End Gamers (that seem to be suffering for not having the chance to get all troops upgraded… 
My prayers and thoughts for them…) but still it’s much more than the insignificant amount of chances i have to drop her from Summoning Stones IF by chance she enters the pool.
In the end it doesn’t have anything about appealing to our needs, it has something to do about making a change that doesn’t solve the problems of not being able to upgrade Epics and Commons, it just made the summoning stones pretty much useless UNLESS at the very CIRCUNSTANTIAL occasion where you have PLENTY of S. Stones AND the desired troop is on the pool AND you also get lucky to drop enough of them… But hey you can still craft weapons.
By the time a new Mythic is released and you spend Glory or Gem Keys you might have better lucky simply because you have more chances at it while trying to get said Mythic.
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I’d argue there are a lot of Commons/Rares that are more valuable than most of the Mythics: Valkyrie, Cockatrice, Cyclops, Dragotaur, Dust Devil… every single one of those is actively used every single week by end game players. That’s already as many as there are decent mythics.
And, again, a 2 in 10,000 chance is so infinitesimally small that it doesn’t even warrant considering. You make it out like they took the mythic right out of your hand.
And here I had been saving up because I am missing nothing BUT mythics… been saving…saving and now for what?
Why can’t we have all levels in the forge and just rotate through? Some folks need epics, some commons, some of us Mythics
Abynissia
Death
Doomclaw
Elemaugrim
Famine
Gard’s Avatar
Infernus
Queen Aurora
Scorpius
The Worldbreaker
Xathenos
And I am not getting them through Gems that’s for sure.
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They needed to give about 25 to 50 copies of the (non guardian, non guild wars) troops to even call it an even trade off. And definitely more than two rares at a time as well. Or the stones needed to be much cheaper to allow for repeated draws. That is the main problem here. Before the patch, summoning stones were regarded as color specific gem keys that couldn’t drop traitstones - not great, given the quantities you get them at, but not terrible either. The prospect of people actually using this as a method to target specific commons or rares in any large quantity given the other options available and the scarcity of jewels just doesn’t make logical sense if you are aware how drops in the game works.
For a little math, lets say you have about 50% chance of a common from the summoning stones (this would make targeting other things terrible, but lets use this as a starting point). Three copies of a given common normally take on average 381 gold keys. This number will increase with each common added, but not by that much - commons aren’t currently being added all that often, so it would be years before this number even doubles at this point. The same common would take an average of 200 Jewels in soul forge given the hypothetical 50% drop rate and assuming both commons have equal weight. Lets ignore the fact that you’d have on average 3 of a specific common you need and 3 of one you dont for now form the jewels, but on average 3 of every single common in the game with gold keys. 200 Jewels is comparatively way more difficult and rare to obtain. Guild Wars and Guardian Troops aside (which, by the way, I would really like confirmation on whether or not that is intended), this is a really, really really poor way to try and get a large enough complement of common troops for Ascension given how readily available (and farmable) gold keys already are.
If the drop rate for commons is lower than this, then the price in jewels to make any progress on a specific common is higher. If the drop rate for commons is higher, then you’ve basically reduced the relative “value” of summoning stones by a significant amount.
Its nice that there are only 2 ultra-rares and 2 epics in any given drop pool at any given time now, but I don’t even want to stop and think about how hellish that rotation will be until a target one appears and if you’ll get it or not.
So, the over under on nerf versus nerf-buff versus buff-nerf is going to depend on the relative drop rates of the various rarities. If Epics have been decreased in chance, its pretty much a nerf. If only ultra-rares have had their chance lowered to make room for the commons/rares, its a nerf-buff - you can get a paltry amount of commons or rares, at the cost of an infinitesimally small chance of pulling a mythic; you now have better targeting, but longer wait periods. If Epics have been increased in chance since legendaries and mythics can no longer drop, its a buff more than a nerf since you can now better target a specific epic.
I guess what I’m getting at is bottom line the people excited that there is a way to “target” commons and rares now need to take a look at the quantities given and the supply available compared to other easier, faster, and cheaper methods of acquisition. You’d no more blow thousands of jewels trying to get a few dozen copies of a (again, non guardian, non guild wars troop) common than you would open thousands of gem keys on a non-exclusive mythic week when you have all the other ones to increase your supply of extra troops to disenchant to get souls. You could, but you probably wouldn’t. When a game has different paths to reach the same goal, the paths should at least be comparable, and thats what I’m not seeing here.
If the Guild Wars and Guardian troops are actually intended to be in the drop pool, that is a different matter. These are rare enough for summoning stones to be a viable alternative to guild chests/high ranked guild wars. Then it is still the matter of waiting out until they appear on the pool. You would be hard pressed to convince me that two copies of any rare would be worth the relative cost. And yes, I know it would be handy for super early gamers, but if you are struggling with your common/rare collection, you aren’t likely to have progressed into dungeons. If Guild Wars/Guardian troops need to stay at a possible 3 drops per stone, that is perfectly understandable (if the are even intended to be there in the first place), but other commons/rares don’t make sense.
I therefore cannot possibly view this as any sort of significant buff or “mission accomplished” for targeting lower rarity troops. Or even call it a step in the right direction. Maybe… having one toe pointed vaguely in the correct direction?
tl;dr:
- We still don’t know if guild wars and guardian troops in the pool is intentional or not (@Nimhain)?
- For all other commons/rares, too few copies given per stone draw, too few stone draws available period for this to be a viable acquisition method for these rarities given how many are needed to ascend them
- For progression levels where you are obtaining commons or rares for the first time, you are not likely to be able to get far in (or even have access to) dungeons
- gold keys still exist, are far easier to get, and are a far far far more effective way to obtain commons and rares (even projecting for added commons in the drop pool years into the future)
- The system, again, doesn’t scale, because the average amount of time between the availability of a troop increases with each one added.
- it wasn’t that much of a nerf to remove legendaries and mythics, considering the relative scarcity and drop chance compared to how many you need to get anything done
- theres no possible way it can be viewed any kind of impactful way to collect low rarity troops for the same reasons
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Well, somebody got two in one draw. As for me, I got at least a Legendary.
And no, I don’t see all those Commons routinely used in end game teams. Your mileage may vary.
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Why was Myzmer removed form summoning stones?
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because he is meant to be a Guild War only troop for now, then the GW troops will possibly be released into the Guild chests, like the guardians.
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After actually trying these stones now, my stance is shifting slightly. I still don’t really think this is a nerf, but that may be mostly because I never used the summoning stones before. I don’t see why people would fuss over the loss of the minuscule chance of rolling a mythic here, they can be specifically targeted to craft.
However the new design is still no use to me to solve the problem I actually wanted dealt with. There’s one base common that I want lots of: Firebomb. It’s in this week’s red stone selection. Yay. Though that was almost impossible to find as the tiny ‘?’ sign is pretty much impossible to click on my mobile. And I tried a number of red stone rolls - and got 3 Firebombs for a daftly high cost of resources. I need around 150. This is still too random to be any use.
Why oh why can’t crafting simply be accessed from specific troops in the troop menu / upgrade / disenchant UI? Even for a higher cost of stones. Just not random.
Meanwhile my Souls stockpile clears 3.4m and I have nothing to do with them.
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Hi Guys,
We just wanted to jump in and explain some of the thought process we had with changing the Summoning Stones.
Core idea behind the Soulforge is to be able to craft targeted goodies for the game (whether it’s Troops, Weapons, Traitstones or Souls). While the original Summoning Stone allowed you to target troops of a specific color, it was still just another form of chest which was color based, and not as targeted as the rest of the Soulforge.
We wanted to guild players towards the better tools to chasing that desirable mythic/ legendary, and we have several improvements coming that will also help with this.
We wanted to include Common and Rare troops as something you could craft from the Soulforge. While also keeping the ability to chase Ultra-Rares or Epics, outside of event chests.
I’ll go into more depth about these points as well as some of the changes we’re hoping to bring in the future below.
Changing Summoning Stones
Suppose I wanted to target Wulfgarok (green/red/purple):
- As a free player I’d have 6 attempts per week at getting him (2 green, 2 red, 2 purple)
- Suppose, like Gem Chests, Summoning stones were about 1/1000 chance to get a Mythic (not the actual drop rate… but ballpark)
- Each one of those attempts has a 1/10 chance of pulling Wulfgarok if a Mythic DOES drop (there’s roughly say 10 Mythics of each color)
- This means on any given week, I’d have 6 chances to win a 1/10,000 jackpot and get Wulfgarok, or at the very least 6 chances to get a random Mythic in a 1/1,000 Jackpot
- So, on average, I’m going to see a random mythic once every 3 years, and Wulfgarok is going to appear about once every 30 years
So, what we’re seeing here is Summoning Stones were a pretty bad way to try and target Mythics. And it’s true we’d like to nudge players away from that - not because we don’t want you to get Mythics…we DO! But instead because we don’t want you digging for Mythics in a really inefficient and ultimately disappointing manner. We provide you with Mythic-exclusive weeks to target new Mythics via regular keys, and a rotating Mythic crafting system to target ones you may have missed. We feel these are the most effective way to target Mythics, and if anything, we’d rather investigate rotating Mythics/Legendaries more frequently in the Soulforge to let you target them there.
Regarding Commons + Rares + Epics:
Previously Summoning Stones were like Gem Chests so they only craft troops of Ultra-rare difficulty or higher. This meant that players had no means to target Common or Rare troops outside of chests. With Epics, current the best means to target a target specific Epic is to wait for Event chests for the correct kingdom, which can take up to around 6 months between events.
The feedback we got from players was that they wanted to be able to use Summoning Stones or Soulforge to target specific troops, focusing on Commons, Rares, and Epics. In the latest version of the Summoning Stones the chance of getting each rarity is equal, so it means players are 3 times as likely to get an Epic troop compared to what they might have previously with the old Summoning Stone.
We are currently listening to all player feedback about the Summoning stones about troops gained vs. resources spent (especially relating to Commons), so while we can’t make any promises, we may look at adjustments in the future.
Also, we have said previously that we’d like to add Common and Rare troops to event chests for their respect kingdoms. We are still looking at this improvement. Currently we are reviewing the troop numbers for these lower rarities, so the value of event chests is not altered.
Just some extra things to note:
We are working on trying to improve the mythic rotation, so it goes through the list of all mythic troops once before mythic rotation resets (the recent change was just the first part of this). We will observe it for a few weeks to make sure it is working as intended (and adjust if necessary). Once we’re happy we’ll most likely then ripple this change to all other crafting that rotates (like Summoning Stones and Legendary troops etc.)
We are also listening to feedback that some players would like quicker troop rotations. We’re still in discussions so we can’t say too much or promise anything now though.
This was unintentional.
We fixed Guild Guardians during the community beta when it was reported to us (Thank you Beta team!). Guild Wars troops was missed when the updated launched but should be fix now.
Lion Prince will be both the Red Summon Stone Pool and the Yellow Summon Stone Pool. However, if it selected to be a Red troop, it can’t be selected to also be a Yellow troop for the same week.
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Thank you for your answer.
In fact I was considering colored (not-diamond) gems as a kind of by-product of gathering diamonds. That way they become, like the Guild chests, a free resource gained while following other goals, and mainly I used them to forge Stones. Getting Mythics from Summoning Stones was a bonus.
Also, I got four Mythics in almost two years. To me the Summoning Stone chances look as good as any.