What's the point of this Hoard Mimic?

E12 battles are tedious, I have more than 30 gold elite mythic troops. Do you guys ever think about players like me? I don’t mind doing more battles for this hoard mimic, but the drop rate is incredibly insane. So why are you intentionally making players feel uncomfortable?

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What is the point of making a rare mythic if anyone and everyone can get them in a first few days.
Hoard Mimic is no more than a “I play a lot and get lucky” trophy. It give power level 24 for Dragon’s Claw, which add a tiny extra tribute chance.

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It’s supposed to be a random luck card to acquire I guess. I’m just trying to figure out why it’s a dragon claw card after we just got a dragon claw mythic during a silverglade campaign event… when silverglade needs another troop to get to power level 20.

This isn’t pointed at the OP specifically, but there are a couple mindsets present in the post that are common across this forum, and I’d like to address them.

Firstly, there are quite a few players who seem to think that all new content should be reasonably attainable within a week of release. A recent example would be the Cursed Gnome fiasco, as well as the Hoard Mimic. If all new content can be reasonably attained within a week, the game will eventually die from people losing interest. As I ranted about on another post, the carrot has to feel close to the player, but actually be always just out of reach. That means that even the people who spend every waking minute on GoW might not complete all the new stuff on the first few days of release (gasp!).

That leads into my second point, which is that Gems of War has always been and is only becoming more random. I gave the example of a player playing GoW every waking minute and not getting {insert new content here} immediately completed in the first few days of release. How is that fair? Doesn’t that mean that the average player, who plays, for example, an hour a day, will take months or years to finish that same content? Yes and no. Yes, players who spend ridiculously long times per week on a fantasy match-3 mobile game will usually be ahead of regular players, but not always. Why? Because this game is an RNG-fest. To get Tarot cards you spend a VK or two (hundred) to be able to roll the RNG wheel after battling pathetically easy gnomes. To beat Pure Delves you throw your little pebble at a brick wall enough times until RNG makes the wall fall down. To get most mythics you literally just open loot crates. You get Nysha medals trough RNG. Gems of War is not primarily a game of skill, it’s a game of time and chance.

It follows that achievements based on random events are just natural. For most players, it’s not advisable to chase down Hoard Mimics or cursed runes. Most players just relax, play as they please, and be surprised when RNG decides to do them a favor by landing them some extra runes or a mimic.

TL;DR - Don’t expect to get everything right away, and accept that this game is time + RNG. If that’s not your cup of tea, well, by all means try to enact change by voicing your opinion, but we all know how little the devs consider our opinions and we have seen the direction of the game the last few years.

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I think @NerdieBirdie nailed it. I am one of those players (that play like crazy and believe that I should get all content within the first week). Although this works majority of the time, this time, it did not and I actually give up during the vault week. I don’t think there is anything I will gain by chasing the hoard mimic during the vault event, I would rather replenish my resources. Below is my current rates (account 2 is myself):

Mimic Hoard Mimic (from mimic boss) (from hoard mimic boss)
Account Difficulty Boss Chest Boss Chest Boss Chest Drop Mimic Rate Hoard Mimic Rate Hoard Mimic Drop
Account #1 E9 625 65 55 9 5 0 10.40% 16.36% 0.00%
Account #2 E12 794 82 83 12 11 0 10.33% 14.46% 0.00%
Account #3 E9/12 (Varies) 322 36 35 7 2 0 11.18% 20.00% 0.00%
Total Varies 1741 183 173 28 18 0 10.51% 16.18% 0.00%

Ok, back to gnome hunt.

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I feel you pain my friend.
I think they need to value more players that put the time and effort to accomplish, getting a prize or something valuable instead of putting it on luck and not talent/ Skills.

I feel they should have the mythic a prize for reaching or completing a task or journey.
Create a tournament or journey to battle enemies and afterwards you get the mythic once you complete the task or tasks.

This is just an idea but you can have any idea that make the players earn for their time and effort and skills.

All the best to everyone hunting the new mythic.

I hope the developers do something to ease our pain. @Kafka @Nimhain @Jeto

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I was thinking about this. In some sense, the players who play more are gifted, since we have more chance to get that random drop (whether it is seeing the mimic / hoard mimic / or getting the drop), however, on the other hand, if you do nothing but E12 farming for 5-6 days non-stop and don’t get it, it starts to get frustrating. I am in for the long grind, so I quickly decided to pause and continue next week, but I could easily see how this could make someone like me quit the game on a whim.

That being said, I also hear @NerdieBirdie point and observation. If you look at the card skills, etc., the game started to become more and more RNG-dependent lately. I think the new additions are part of that pattern too. This is also a tactic, I believe, to make people gamble more and therefore get addicted more. I guess, a double-edged sword. So, again, I will get hoard mimic at some point, it just won’t be this week since I would like to prioritize gnome hunting and GaP instead. Looking at my data so far, I realized that even if I trash this week’s gnome hunt, it is unlikely that I will gain much :slight_smile: That being said, am I angry for my guild mates that got hoard mimic drop from the very first try? Hell no! I am actually super happy for them. For me, it is not a question of “if” but more like “when”, but for more casual people (okay, our guild is nowhere close to casual, but you get the point :smiley: ), it might have been. So, I am glad that they have access to it.

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Devs probably have a salary bonus coming up depending on how many hours played by players. Week long vault event too…coincidence?

Hours played would be quite an usual factor to base salary bonuses on. Companies tend to focus more on profit. :wink:

Given the back story this one would feel very unfair to even remotely consider nagging about. Don’t go there.

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Hoard Mimic drop seems about consistent with other rare drops, such as Heart of Rage/Tarots/Cursed Gnomes. The rarest drops from the vault were analyzed and found to be at best 0.25-0.75% (if my memory serves me correctly). My data is a cursed gnome about every 400 or so battles from 10K plus. I will see where that is overall after the week and hopefully in excess of 15000 battles worth of data.

I think you are looking at between 0.25% and 0.75% chance for the Mythic drop every time you hit a Boss. Obviously a bit more difficult to easily process the data because of 2 lots of RNG to give you that chance of the drop, but I would be surprised if it’s less than 1:300+ chance of getting the Mythic when exploring.

I’m okay with it. I’m not okay with the lack of progress in the game and the penalties for progression - aka the kingdom helper offers and stuff. The carrot and the stick is a good argument, I agree with it, but where is in game progression and the reward for progress anyway when you get to it. In the end it’s personal choice, but apart from high bracket guild wars, (and that is subjective with personal choice, and is still broken - hello!!) there’s less and less with more in this game.

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Some very good points here, but I would like to talk about the comparison to the cursed gnomes and this most recent release. There seems to be a lot of comparisons because when the gnomes came out a lot of people got upset at the rate they collected resources. In the end that was an overreaction.

I don’t think you can compare these two. First of all the troop is not that great, it really is just a completion item. That being said, there is not a path to get this item directly. It is RNG period, and insanely bad RNG at that. Everything in this game is RNG, but you have a percentage chance to build to something that has proven to be true over and over.

You want ZUU Goth? Lets not talk about before Gnoma, but if you are a new player focus hard and gather resources. He will be yours in a couple of months to a year.

You want a specific Mythic? Save your diamonds and eventually it will come around to soulforge.

Want a cursed weapon? same as the above.

Want the new hoard Mythic? First you need to play the game. There is a small chance that a special chest will roll. Then there is a battle and after there is another small chance to roll a new Chest. Another battle and another small chance you finally get the mythic.

Unlike other parts of this game, there is no slow eventual push to get something with this mode. You can spend months building up to get a mythic you want, or get REALLY lucky and pull it in chest…but with this new mythic the chance to get it is insanely low. We really don’t know how low, but when you are in a top 20 guild…and everyone is spending every moment trying to get it and not a single one…think about the hours spent with 30 people trying to get something and how long it is going to take you…

What would fix this, but still require possible months to get… is every time you do the Hoard Mythic battle you at least get one special token. Put the new mythic in the soulforge and require these special tokens to craft. Require something like 10 tokens to craft. This means you have the insanely low chance to get the card, but if not eventually you will. Getting 10 of these hoard mythic battles is still going to take a LONG time, but at least you feel forward momentum like every other game mode in the game.

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My issue is one that I expect games to have a certain amount of fairness.

Yes, someone who plays more should get more rewards and have chances of better rewards, but it’s also possible that someone who grinds all day, every day, won’t get [Reward], whereas someone who only plays casually, hits a lucky streak with the RNG and gets [Reward] in their second battle.

If someone made a board game like this, I doubt many people would play it, and they’d describe it as fundamentally broken, since there’s absolutely no strategy or skill involved, just sheer luck.

There needs to be more of a balance between pure luck and those who put time, effort (and money!) into the game otherwise it reduces the enjoyability.

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I agree with the sentiment that big goals should optimally be able to be worked towards and get closer to. It would be really nice if there was more of that in this game, like grinding ever-closer to Zuul, as you mentioned.

However, I disagree that the Hoard Mimic is an exception, something that relies solely on RNG in a game that largely does not. Rather, I believe most new content relies on RNG. As I pointed out above, getting Nysha medals is completely reliant on RNG in the same way that the Hoard Mimic is. Getting Tarot cards, which are not that great in battle but necessary for completionists (just like Hoard Mimic) are also obtained solely through RNG by rolling VKs over and over. Neither of these situations have any way to gradually work towards the goal other than to keep rolling the RNG wheel.

Another form of RNG content is Pure Delves at 500, which is a little different from the other examples. There can technically be some strategy in these fights, and they can be worked towards via hoard upgrades. However, for the average player without infinite gold and time, they amount to RNG of gem falls and status procs which allow a player to win or lose. While still incredibly difficult and RNG-based, I wish we would see more content like this that can at least slightly be worked towards without a total reliance on RNG.

I totally agree with your point

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I like this idea and at least you start a way or build up to gain the new Mythic .

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I also like this idea a lot, but I think your current rate (10 tokens) is very cheap. I was able to see a hoard mimic fight more than 15 times in a week of playing. Although not proven, we believe that hoard mimic drop rate (from the fight) is about 5%, so, if you are suggesting that we should get 1 token per fight, and assuming that on average it gets 20 fights to get the drop, I think it should ask for 100 tokens (or potentially more) to ensure that it is completely fair. This way, you have plenty of chance to get it as a usual drop and if you are super unlucky to do so, you can craft it after 100 fights. Before anyone mentions that 100 fights will take forever, again, I managed to get almost 20 fights in a week, so technically you can do it in 5 weeks.
(This would require you to do pretty much nothing and play a tremendous amount, so let’s say for a decent player, this would take 10-20 weeks instead. However, even with 20 weeks, this is 5 months and as you can remember, previously it would take several months of playing to craft Zuul etc.)

I hate the totally RNG aspect of the new content. Doesn’t make sense to farm or buy something which helps you with farming since there is no progression just luck.
I did about 20 explore runs since the 6.2 was released and saw mimic fights twice. Devs can be god damn sure I will not do thousands of runs for a promise.
Nysha tokens and cursed runes are the same, they not worth farming.

I love this idea, should be implemented for everything. If I know my invested efforts will bring fruit I am willing to invest, but just hope that RNG will be in my favor, no thank you!

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“Hours played” poster is right. You can’t make money with a dead online playerbase. Bonus are around activity this month? “I’ll put a week long vault weekend in the last quarter and top it off with an impossible free mythic thats tied to explore 12”

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Just popping my head in to say thanks for all the constructive, detailed feedback.
We’ve been keeping track of these conversations around RNG, particularly about the Hoard Mimic.

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Thank you for your patience and time. i have no problem with the encounter rate of the mimics, they bring extra badges after all. What confuses is that players like me(lv2000+, 30+ gold mythics, 600+ gold troops) still need to do E12 to get the new troop, but why? I have done enough E12, why can’t I buy or use keys or forge(i’m ok with power orbs)? The only thing that keeps me playing this game is full collection, and we all know that this hoard mimic is just a cosmetic troop. I’ve spent enough time and money on this game, but I have to do it again from ground zero to get just one troop. I think players deserve to be treated fairly. And this hoard mimic is absolutely not end-gamer-friendly.