What is the point of the Daemonic Pact trait?


#1

So I was in a pitched battle for a pet when I after I knocked out a tough opponent an Ancient Horror appeared. This saved me. There were a lot of skulls on the board and the one troop left that was not the horror had a wicked attack. The Ancient Horror gave me time to build up my manna while it landed harmless love taps. If I the table had been turned, I would have felt cheated.

Seriously, what is the point of this trait? It is less than useless. At best it stops one or two skull attacks, at worst it nerfs your attacks. It’s traits only makes start of game bonuses, so summoning it in the middle of the fight makes spending trait stones on it pretty pointless. And 10 troops have this trait! I’d rather have Necromancy, at least I’d have something to take from the battle.

On the plus side it’s a great idea. (I love the Lovecraft) and it has great art. The concept is solid: Hey, maybe a deamon might crawl out of this corps and wreck things. It just simply doesn’t live up to it’s name.

I’d like to see the trait be replaced by a better trait.
OR, Make Ancient Horror Great Again (AHGA? Was it great before and now just seems puny by comparison?) Give it some teeth
OR, Change Ancient Horrors traits to be something useful after it has been summoned

Oooo, better yet, Make it truly terrifying but unavailable in your regular troops without a HUGE outpouring of resources like Zuul’Goth. Better still, just leave Ancient Horror out of the equation all together and give Deamonic Pact a 25% (or maybe less) chance to Summon Zuul’Goth. Now that would be interesting. :smiley:


#2

I think the idea is it’s a bad version of a good trait because “the troops that have it are already considered quite powerful”.

Gorgotha, in particular, doesn’t really need any buffing. There’s only 2 other legendaries with the trait, and the remaining trait-holders aren’t very powerful either.

That just leaves Medea and The Silent One sticking out as kind of weird, and I agree either one could take a bump to their power level without breaking much.


#3

This trait is just outdated, when the game was “young” it could turn a battle around. Lately it’s more like a themed thing instead of an desirable trait.

I don’t think it should summon Zuul’Goth.


#4

A ramdom daemon sounds better.


#5

Giving it some extra thought maybe a random Daemon of the same Rarity of the troop? It makes sense that some “half-assed warlock/wizard” makes weak pacts with lesser Daemons while powerfull entities/warlocks/mystics are overseen by stronger ones.


#6

Sounds great! I think!


#7

The percentage chance would have to go down. Maybe a 5% chance to summon Zuul’Goth.

Also, Unless you own the troop, you can’t purchase new traits for it. So, It would come in at the level of your magic with no traits.


#8

Isn’t this appearing worse because of the bug in summoned troops’ levels in pet battles: you defeat a lv80 enemy with huge stats, and a lv20 enemy appears. Or sometimes lv1. Same happens when IK revives or Sunbird kills and self-revives.


#9

It’s consistent but there are multiple kinds of summon and that makes it confusing.

Some summons just summon a thing. They were designed without a lot of forethought so they “look in the attacker’s collection” for the card and summon it. So if you’ve leveled the card and you use this spell, you get the level you have. In a PvP-oriented mode, the AI gets whatever the other player has. In other modes, the CPU has no collection so it gets level 1.

Some summons say they summon “a level X” thing. When they say that they mean “Summon a level max(20, magic + ?) thing”. For these, it doesn’t matter if it’s a player or the CPU who casts it, the stat is on troop so it’s always used.

That’s why you “sometimes” see level 20. Some of the summons see “magic + ?” is greater than 20 and obey the cap. Others look for a card that’s not there and use a level 1.

There have been extensive threads about how dumb this is, it’d be nice if they both worked the same, and honestly it makes more sense if Pet Rescue troops can exceed level 20.


#10

Just a correction, unless the trait specify that it summons a troop of a certain level, which is unprecedent if correctly recall, it’ll only summon a troop with the stats it has on your collection, so everyone who doesn’t have Zull’Goth would summon him without any level.

So… Why do you think this is a good idea again?
At least the Ancient Horror would survive an enemy troop sneezing in his direction, if you invested at least a few souls on him that is…


#11

It’s been my experience that the summoned troop comes in at the level of the summoners magic. E.G. if you have a magic of 15 you summon a level 15 troop. Level 30 magic will bring in a level 20 (max) troop.

Is this not the case? I haven’t done any deep research this has just been my observation.


#12

The traits only summon the troop with stats based from your collection without any regard to the magic of the source (the troop dying, taking damage (some class talents) and such).

For spells it’s like Slypenslyde posted above:

Your summonner could have 25+ magic and still wouldn’t summon a troop at a higher level than 20, also if you don’t own the summoned troop at a level as high as the summoner’s magic would allow it’ll be summoned at the max level in your collection. Examples:

The spell says “Summon a level 15 Skeleton.” But if your skeletons are only at level 10 then you get a level 10 “Skellybroh”.

The spell says “Summon a level 15 Skeleton.” But even if your skeletons are at level 20 you’ll get only a level 15 “Skellybroh”.


#13

OK I just played a battle to confirm this.

I have a group I call “Lunchables.” Black Beast, Falconer, Ice Worm, and Kracken. The conceit is, power up BB and eat the Kracken ASAP. Then Falconer summons a Warhawk. Power up the Beastie again, and eat the Warhawk. Lather rinse repeat.

In my troop list Warhawk is level 1. I didn’t bother to level it up because souls can be used elsewhere and I don’t use it in any group. My Falconer has a magic of 23, the Warhawks she summons come in at level 20.

I can’t say that this is the case with every troop, but i had noticed this trend with other summoners (Orcle for example) and I thought is was a universal rule. I havent’t tried summoning Skeletons, but I think I have them leveled to 19 or 20.

Maybe the system matters. I play on Xbox one and Android.


#14

Odd… I’m pretty sure it wasn’t supposed to do that… If i’m not mistaken there is an old post by Sirrian explaining the changes to summoning, i’ll try to find it.


#15

@DonLothar, i wasn’t able to find the specific post, but still checking things in the game this behavior shouldn’t happen at all:

You shoudln’t summon high level hawks, you can report it as a bug.


#16

There seems to be some confusion about how summons work. Traitsummons never summon outside of this specific level of the troop as it appears in the collection and spell summons, excepting the arena special case where they come in at level 15, always summon at the level of the user’s magic. Traitsummons include Infernal King’s Immortal, which is just a traitsummon for an Infernal King when the Infernal King dies. Spell summons include Sunbird’s spell, which is just a spell summon for another Sunbird as the last step of when it casts (after it dies and deals damage). For example, level 20 Sunbirds casting in NPC content revive at level 10 because they have only 10 magic without the backing of kingdom bonuses. PC AI summons are already allowed to “cheat” in one way - they can ignore the “collection rarity cap” for spell summons and be allowed to be summoned up to level 20 if they have enough magic to do so, although their rarity remains unchanged. For example, a Spider Swarm summoned from a 42 magic Giant Spider on Warlord VI of a challenge looks like this:

image

Because Warlord IV is x3 stats, it has base 8 attack, 12 armor, and 20 life. This lines up exactly with the numbers they would have at level 20 without being ascended.

When they added context highlighting for magic scaling, they removed the specific level summon from the text of summon spells (except Nysha’s skull for some reason), and then added the tooltip instead. But for spells, it has always (since the summon revamp) summoned equal to the magic, limited by the collection rarity cap, and then then the system level cap (except arenas level 15 rule, and NPC AI ignoring the rarity cap rule). The tooltip is correct in indicating it “cannot exceed its own current max level” (meaning, the max level of the troop being its current ascended rarity), but it could maybe be worded better. Some of this might have to do with the fact that transform is worded similar, (“the level cannot exceed its maximum level in the owner’s collection”), but always comes in at the current level of the troop in the collection and ignores magic completely (should be “the level is equal to to the level in the owner’s collection”.)

Anyways, I don’t think this trait needs to be buffed, nor does the Ancient Horror itself. They could allow the NPC content to “cheat” in a similar way they have inflated levels by giving them a full collection of that level and allowing them to also bypass the level 20 cap raising the level cap on any of their summons as well. They’d still be speed bumps in pet rescues with nothing more than an increase in annoyance factor. Potential annoyance factor would increase considerably for Raids where you can’t just spell chain and having another few hundred bulk to chew through because of a random trait proc ends up being annoyingly time consuming. Also, under this ruleset, a level 80 Sunbird, for example, would still revive at level 40 (because that is how much magic a level 80 Sunbird has), people would still be confused, and we’d still be right back here again with another similar thread (I’ve seen like 3 in the past couple weeks centered around confusion on how this works). Maybe if the AI is also allowed to “cheat” and always summon at the max level of the current content regardless of magic score, that would meet people’s expectations?

tl;dr:

  • Spells summon based on magic, capped by collection rarity, ignores current collection level
  • NPC AI ignore the rarity level cap for spell summons, but are still capped at 20
  • Traits summoned based on current collection level, ignore magic
  • NPC AI don’t have collections
  • Daemonic Pact and Ancient Horror are both fine

#17

Now it’s a feature that is saving me a couple thousand souls. I’m in no hurry to report it. :smiley: