What is going on with these"Justice League" teams?


#1

the justice,mab,korvash,spirit fox,kraken,valkyrie teams are WAY more overpowered than they should be…and getting worse, I first thought it was only Me but there’s more in My guild that this happens to…they can power up EITHER justice or valkyrie and boom game over…mana surge after mana surge cascade after cascade that eliminates 25 to 75 percent of our teams with one single turn…and the survivor has so much attack at the end one ot 2 skull hits completely destroy the defending team…I am not the only one as i said that’s experienced this…and it all goes back to the “cheating A’I” posts it’s just this team in particular that is affected the most…can someone fix this?..I literally skip or retreat from 75% of my ranked matches anymore because one card gets powered up…boom boom boom dead…even when using teams specifically built to win in these cases


#2

Dearest Wishkiller, I have been waiting on this nerf for several months and stopped playing the game because this team is way too strong.

I wouldn’t get my hopes up, but hey, if they nerf Justice (or guild guardians being able to target skulls), I will likely reinstall the game.

Edit: You seem to have trouble with them on defense. My issue was attacking with them. Trust me, they’re even more busted when there’s an actual player behind them


#3

Justice is like a giant bomb, once it hits, its game over. Is it getting a nerf? Well its been like this since new ai came out so i reckon the develepors dont think its op


#4

No, the developers have acknowledged that it is broken on console but can’t do anything about it until the next update, which is scheduled for this month.

We still need to wait for the update to see if whatever they are doing will bring it back into line or not, but they appear to be taking it seriously.

Edit to add: here is Salty saying that the fix is coming in the next update. At the bottom of that thread, she confirms that the schedule (assuming no rejections by Sony or MS) is to get it out before the end of August.

http://community.gemsofwar.com/t/im-losing-my-patience-and-frustrated/28786/21?u=stan


#5

Looks like another good thread for me to drop this in.

http://community.gemsofwar.com/t/anti-valk-justice-mab-trio-attack-teams-for-guild-wars-or-pvp/27015?u=santandrix

I just fight the justice league with the justice league until something changes, why not? Depends on their top troop, and which one I will go with.

Top picks
Manticore
Gloom leaf
Archer
Kraken
Orion


#6

I have come across these teams so much, and infact all the top meta defence teams IE psion+whatever other mana drain, I use Archer hero(mountain crusher)-IK-Sekhma-mercy… even on a bad board and if they get going, I turn them inside out with a grand total of 0 F’s given.


#7

It certainly dominates… My secret go to team is out of the box now :sleepy:


#8

Eep, sorry bud. Sharing is caring though, right?


#9

Let me jump in to this a little and explain some of our reasoning why we’re not hitting anything just yet.

We’re aware that console players are having trouble with these teams. However until the next update goes out on console (with the changes to gem spamming) we cannot address this issue properly.

It could be that the update fixes the issue, or it could be that it allows us to get a better read where problem in the team is.

We have to look are several different questions:

  • If the gem creation alone was the issue then all of the Guild Guardian would see a lot more game play, after all they all have the same gem creation behaviour. So why is Justice the troop being called out?
  • Is the problem that Justice’s secondary spell effect is giving too much of a buff to its allies?
  • Is Justice’s legendary trait the problem?
  • Is Justice the actualy problem or is the problem to do with the troops used with Justice? (Or blue gem creators in general)
  • Is there a counter in these team that’s being underused or could be doing better? Or do we need more counters?
  • Are there ways we can put more points of weakness into these statergies so that people using them can still enjoying playing with the teams, but the people facing them aren’t as frustrated?

We’ve said in the past that we don’t like to rush into balance changes without fully understand what is causing the problem in the first place. The next update will allow consoles to get new troop data from servers rather than waiting for updates so we can fix these balance issues in a better manner rather than trying to rush a fix and getting is wrong.


#10

@Nimhain Concerning Justice and blue gems is heavily the reason for the excessive use with these teams. As it allows for Mab to cycle spam freeze an entire team. The secondary cause is that Justice can ramp up life and attack, not just one. And in one go she can ramp up life and attack to a great degree (far too much in one use of her ability if you ask me). And with how much blue is created can often allow for Mab cycle freeze spam. Then rinse and repeat. So you get this entire team that hits like a truck that can not die easily, and Mab freezing everything.

Additionally I do not understand this reply given this issue with Justice/Mab has been going on for many many months. Its not something new. And truthfully I feel something the developers should have been looking at months ago. Just happy they are now.

The game is getting far far too many troops that can literally blanket the board in gems for cycling. So I feel all of these gem matchers or gem creators need to be dialed back.

Funny as this is these troops working with gems are becoming the main issue anymore. Justice/Mab then GoW decided it would be fun to add more of these kinds of troops into the mix. So its seemingly getting to be a mess with being able to play against massive cycle teams.

Gems of War implies each side has a chance. Though if you apply both sides having a cycle team its only a matter of who gets RNG love first. So more like ‘Gems of RNG’ lately. And then the other team being the slave to a loss and watching as it loops and loops, until they all die or they just retreat and give them the inevitable victory.

And that mechanic aside from anything else should cause a red flag. I keep seeing that the developers will address cycling. Though I have not seen one utterance of a possible consideration to dialing back gems that are matched or created by a troop. Which is also a huge issue.

Reminds me of a thought. Give a person a handgun they will need patience and skill to hit the target effectively. Though if you give the person a machine gun they only need aim in the right direction, this negates the need for patience or skill. Gems of War would be far better with handguns then machine guns.


#11

If the gem creation alone was the issue then all of the Guild Guardian would see a lot more game play, after all they all have the same gem creation behaviour. So why is Justice the troop being called out?

*Justice is being called out because of the combination with Queen Mabs legendary trait of freezing a random enemy on 4 and 5 gems matches. In addition to that Justice spell raises everyone’s attack and health based on the number of frozen troops.

Is the problem that Justice’s secondary spell effect is giving too much of a buff to its allies?

*Likely part of the problem.

Is Justice’s legendary trait the problem?

*No.

Is Justice the actual problem or is the problem to do with the troops used with Justice? (Or blue gem creators in general)

*Imho Justice skill is the problem.

Is there a counter in these team that’s being underused or could be doing better?

*Yes, however once cast and it can be pretty much game over.

Or do we need more counters?

*Yes

Are there ways we can put more points of weakness into these statergies so that people using them can still enjoying playing with the teams, but the people facing them aren’t as frustrated?

*I will think on this one.


#12

After seeing NIMS post I wonder if all troops have to go through this process b4 there nerfed. Bd famine??
But at the end of the day I’m confused that you devs are still confused about the justice problem.


#13

Maybe they need a ps4 for the office? J’s legendary trait is terrible, it’s certainly not the problem. Personally speaking, I don’t think they should be able to cast on skulls.


#14

@Nephilim I personally just feel that statement was made more in the sense of plausible deniability on that end. As a developer you know the ins and outs of pretty much every part of the game. And more so than you could ever let anyone outside the game be aware of. In the end all that truly matters even if willful acceptance is an issue that the issues get resolved.


#15

"Maybe they need a ps4 for the office? "
I was thinking the same :slight_smile:


#16

I believe the gem creation is not the problem. It’s a risk for reward. If I miss the extra turn I give extra turns and lots of mana to my opponent.

The base spell does not buff more than, a sunweaver for exemple, but you can loop since it’s a gem spawner, so that makes it more powerful than sunweaver. However, all guardians give stats and can loop, and other guardians are rarely used.

Certainly not. (I don’t have the trait, and it’s still extremely potent)

Do you see a Justice team that do not use Queen Mab fully traited ?
Mab legendary trait brings too things :

  • A very easy way to apply freeze. Justices is boosted strongly by freeze. And justice loops create/reapply more freezes
  • Freezing the opponent greatly reduces the risk of giving extra turns and mana/skulls to the opponent, since most of the time he will grab a 4+ and back to our justice team.

Amira is already very nice (and the new troop, forget its name, that triple damage to blue, also I suppose) => Kill Justice ASAP.
However : need to be able to collect Amira mana fast. If Justice HP is too high (because my opponent kingdoms are too high), and you can’t one shot justice, then you are simple dead (no time to refill amira again).
And, that’s only one troop.
The full cleanse troops aren’t good enough counters, since the freeze reapplies too fast.
We could still go with “can’t be frozen” troops (like queen mab), or “impervious”.

I’m not sure more counters is the way to go.

In my opinion the “owerpower” comes from the combinaison of Justice + Queen Mab legendary trait.

I would either :

  • Prevent Mab from doing tons of freeze so easily, for example : Freeze opponent when it is hit by a spell (or only single target spells ?).

  • Or have Justice scale out of something other than Freeze. (Looper + Freeze that’s lots of control, I believe we should not encourage that combination). Now, Hunter’s Mark, Diseases and Poisons doesn’t thematically fit with Justice :frowning: . Death Mark could be nice, but used by Sacrifice. Somehow, Hunter’s Mark could also work : it’s underused today, and we could consider Justice a Bounty Hunter ? :slight_smile:


#17

Just noticed this thread.

The biggest problem with Justice is he has a 4x boost ratio with 2 stats that increase, essentially giving him a 8x boost ratio.

Moving his boost ratio to 2x combined with the gem spawn change is enough to properly nerf him to the proper range.

As it currently stands, Justice just ramps up a team too quick having an hp AND attack gain that is above average compared to troops that specifically only boost one or the other. Justice is essentially a Luther + Lady A as one single troop.


#18

Actually the problem is not the boost ratio. If the boost ratio was .25 it would still be broken… It would just take longer

The problem comes from infinite looping… I dont know what it is but on mobile when i fight justice league even when he starts looping it doesnt end the battle.

On ps4 however… If justice starts looping for the ai or the player its game over almost every time. Plain and simple


#19

Once they change the gem spawning on console that would be fixed.

On PC, I find Justice to only be slightly above average at looping and these days it is barely even considered a consistent looper, but is used for the stats.

Justice as a looper doesn’t stack up at all compared to things like 2x troll loop, Webspinner, or Elemaugrim + Infernus.

If the stats don’t matter, then people would just run Alch + Humility, Hellcat + Courage, Green Seer Loyalty, etc.


#20

Like I’ve already said, I’m pretty sure that just making guardians unable to cast on skulls would make them less of a problem. However the double boost with just is ridiculous.