"We understand that Delves are too difficult" so 90% of what we do is to make them more difficult instead of making them easier

Yeah you gave us potions. Probably because it was too difficult (or expensive) to have Faction Assaults be the only event to go without them.
Meanwhile you continue to pull bull shit Ninja changes like this:
Newish layout (starting in November it looks like)

Original design:

So basically you changed it to require a level 5 room (hardest possible outside of Bosses) to be completed to complete the delve.

Don’t worry about explaining the folks the reason why the change occured. I can speak dev for you.
It was changed because too many folks (all be it a small percentage of the game) are able to get the Faction to 2500 with a hoard quality 100 and zero potions. Which goes against our ethos of wanting the Delves to be a huge time, gems, and gold sink with little rewards for it. We don’t consider how difficult our delves are outside of Primal Rift (before the change) and Crypt Keepers. And the thousands of players who sink millons of gold into delves and still can’t get them to 2500 without Potions. Nor do we bother to address the difficulty after we nerf PvP gold by 66% and raise the cost of one LT by 300%. We instead make fundamental changes that makes @Sirrian words as trustworthy as a politicians. Tell us what we want to hear, but then do whatever makes you the most money. All because maybe 100 (if that) players didn’t waste enough resources to get Primal Rift to 2500. (If it’s more than 100 then they probably used hacks so shouldn’t be considered when screwing over legit players.:man_shrugging:)

TL:DR - The delves may financially be looking like they are working as intended. But skeezy moves like this one will eventually start to hurt your bottom line. You are still profiting off a lot of good will you earned during the first 3 years of GoW. If behavior doesn’t change, then it’s only a matter of time before you lose it… And your players aka :moneybag:.


I thought I was just going crazy when I did the faction event just now. “Wasn’t this over there before? What’s happening?”

Start → 1 → 5 → Boss is much more challenging than Start ->2 → 3 → Boss. *facepalm*

I don’t think that was the only reason the delve was the easiest to clear but it probably helped a lot.

Regardless, ninja changes ARE BAD.


I thought this had changed. I keep saying it, but it is clear that Devs read the forums and take note of things mentioned by players and actively change things for the negative.

Primal Rift is maybe the easiest faction but it is still RNG driven so much. 11 Green Golem summons in a row for example, that’s a distinct memory for me when facing it.

Another thing I don’t get is threads about wanting to spend more money on the game, when it’s clear gold nerfing and gold extra costs are undervaluing time spent in game for the players - it’s a terrible time to ask players for more $$ after the Epic Fail Tasks.

Since we were told factions were (what where the words - too hard? ) here’s a few things that made them harder…

The change to Naga Queen so it can power red for Lamia’s without blocking. Previously it was green and blue to fill it, convert brown gems to red. Now it’s yellow to red. What this does when facing this ludicrous room with faction teams is you basically have two empowered charms that do not block the Naga Queen that makes red gems to feed them. Before at least blue would slow down Naga Queen. I don’t know how long Tai Pan was out and shared the same trick as TNQ but it could have been changed way before I’m sure and what about Nimue and Alderfather?

The addition of an empowered Gimlet into Lady Ironbeard was also a terrible addition as Lady I will 1 shot everything. Basically it’s over 75% of the time from turn 1. With factions you can’t use empowered converters to change awful boards…

The addition of Venbarak in the dragon room was also a terrible addition, 2 casts of it and it’s over for faction teams, whereas we just had TDS with the eggs and babies before.

The Dragonian Rogue team with stealth troops.

City of Thieves faction - can anyone explain the logic for this faction. It’s stupid, it’s got no clear win condition from the combination of troops. It has a backfire lose condition. I’ve been trying it at around hoard 125 and just lol really.

The Harpy debacle, it still is ongoing - breaking the faction. I see it’s being fixed but it’s long overdue.

I could go on… gold etc.


Glad I was fortunate enough to knock out this Pure Faction before this change. That does make it significantly harder.


Been raging about this earlier myself. For me it’s a huge Mike Tyson punch over the face.


I actually just did this delve last night at 210 with pure faction and lost a troop in the level 5 room right before the Boss room. I was still able to complete the Delve, but now it looks like this…


I’m pretty sure that the achievement for winning without casualties is for not losing a troop ever, even if you can re-summon troops, which is pretty silly considering Alderfather summons Treant/Green Golem.

Yeah, regardless of re summoning, if you have a troop die at any time, you won’t get the reward for completing “with no casualties”.
If an enemy troop transforms one of your troops into another troop, that also counts as a casualty.

“Players were not completing the delve as intended. Therefore a nerf was necessary”. New map layout working as intended.

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I’m curious: will the Amanithrax start be moved to top left, and finish to top right? 1st ever mandatory 7 room clear.

I think a few players have cleared that faction team delve at hoard 100 as well. 5 room path not challenging enough. Allegedly.

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I think I trust my politicians more than these devs.

At least I’ll get a handshake and a “Hi, how are you?” while the knife is bring twisted in my side.


delves have never been too difficult. i was quite sad and frustrated when they added potions making them basically free to finish because most people can make they many gems from tributes in a week.

We need an end game content that is accessible to all (counter to GWs) but can only be completed by the top 1% or less, even if that takes grinding time (farming for delve treasure).

please dont make delves any easier!

PS: Primal Rift lvl500-pure can be done with lvl100 hoard without potions. probably the easiest least RNG focused faction to complete. so it was probably due for a nerf :stuck_out_tongue:

It could be done prior to November. Has anyone done it since the change in layout?

You’re trolling right?
2k gems is the average to get to 2500 during a Faction Assault. No one gets that from tributes in a week.
And you honestly believe that a pure Faction team at level 500 run isn’t difficult without potions?
I’m guessing your opinion is based on you having every faction to 2500 and max overall renown correct?


Potions cost Gems. That’s not “free”.

Potions in all events (Invasion, Raid Boss, Tower of Doom, etc.) are part of the very intentional new generation of Gem sinks in this game.


Can confirm the “old layout”, because I still have an unplayed delve sitting there from sometime last year:

And the Assault now:

Inb4 “it was a bug fix”.

Based on the graphical representation of the delve, it does indeed look like the room layout was always intended to be this way (note the style of the current final room compared with many other final rooms, where it is visually distinct) . I also think this faction is still possible at Hoard Level 100 and no potions, but having a few legendary rooms are easy run killers for the faction team and thus you’d be wasting more attempts. If this was intended to be a nerf to increase the difficulty, much worse things could have been done. I don’t think that was the intent here.

This does not excuse:

  • Changing the difficulty of an established thing for players that came later just because it was “always intended” to be that way after a year of allowing people to do it the slightly easier way
  • Considering the visual layout of a delve over the gameplay impact
  • Making said change without saying anything.

Please be more aware of the impact of the changes that go in. For people that care about delve completion, this is not a “minor” change that “isn’t worth mentioning”. People care when stuff like this is changed, and at the very least would want to be notified ahead of time. If it was explained why this change was being made beforehand, you would have gotten much less vitriol, and the complaints you got would have been “but this makes the faction team run more difficult, its been like this for a year so that isn’t really fair, please don’t do it”, valuable feedback that could have been considered before making a change to long-standing game content just so it matched visually.

edit: typo


Keyword here “too” difficult. Yes delves pre potions and even post potions can be very difficult. But are they too difficult that they need a change? Its my personal opinion that they don’t and I am aware my opinion is of the minority :slight_smile:

Consurvative asumption of 15 gems per tribute at a crazy 16 tributes per day for a dedicated player like myself. 15x16x7=1,680. Plus guild taks and AB. Im not far off… But I rather not bring into the light how many gems we really can make from fear of them getting nerfed.

I did pure the other day on PS4 with hoard level 100.

I wish I was that lucky. My average is 10. And that’s with Max stars. So anyone that isn’t an end gamer gets much less on average per hour.

You beat level 500 Primal Rift with 100 hoard Quality?

That is correct.