Voice of Orpheus incorrect damage

Platform, device version and operating system:

Steam, Windows 10

Screenshot or image:

What you were expecting to happen, and what actually happened:

The screenshot shows 61 damage, +90 damage from boost: Orpheus has 22 mana filled, my Hero has 20, Infernus has 24, Stonehammer has 24. That’s 22+20+24+24 = 90 boost damage, which is what it says under the boost calculation. And the text in the description says “boosted by ALL ally Mana.” Orpheus also has Arcane trait which gives him +1 Magic when an ally casts a spell. And the Delve also gives him another Arcane trait, for +2 Magic total when he casts. This counts his own cast too, before he casts it, so the total damage will be 61+2+90 = 153.

Luna has 168 health. So she should be left with 15. But as you can see in the follow-up screenshot, she only takes 131 damage. Let’s work it backwards then…

131 - 61 (initial damage) = 70 - 20 (Dawnbringer) - 24 (Infernus) - 24 (Stonehammer) - 2 (Arcane traits) = 0 … uh, so, I guess that 22 extra damage from Orpheus’s own mana means nothing?

The problem of course is that Orpheus text SAYS it is boosted by ALL mana, and the boost also counts everybody’s mana, including his own, but the calculation only happens after you cast the ability, which drains his mana to 0, so you lose the 22 expected damage.

If we’re going strictly by his ability’s wording, he should be dealing 22 additional damage with every cast. If his wording is wrong, then it should be adjusted to say “boosted by all other ally’s Mana” and the boost calculation should be corrected to reflect that as well, because the damage he actually does already does that.

How often does this happen? When did it begin happening?
Every time.

Steps to make it happen again
Just cast his spell.

Orpheus is at zero mana at cast.

ya… i was going to make a post saying the same thing… but then once i read the whole post he knows that already.

The Title of the bug report is misleading. it should be that VoO text and boost calc is wrong or needs to be fixed. not that his dmg done is wrong. VoO is working as intended.

i agree with the OP that if VoO was changed to all OTHER ally’s mana. then he would do the same dmg as now but the boost pre-calc would be accurate . then of course the player needs to understand there is +1 from trait.

@Kafka i just want to point out that this comes up ALOT on the discord servers. we are constantly explaining about why VoO does the dmg he does. it would help GREATLY if we could change this in a way that was more clear for new players without otherwise effecting VoO functionality or dmg.

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It’s not misleading according to Orpheu’s ability text and the damage listed under his Boosted damage. His ability text says it takes his own mana into consideration, and the number listed under Boost does that too.

Us players know though that when Orpheus actually resolves the ability, the game checks everyone’s mana levels and sees Orpheus at 0. But the text and boosted calculation imply that it will calculate the damage before.

Now, how do I think it should be addressed? Well, I think the text and boost calculator should be fixed to reflect that he only looks at other allies’ mana.

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Did an unnecessarily lengthy post on this when it was brought up before.

As pointed out, the damage does get boosted off his mana… but his mana is always 0 when it is calculated. And the easiest “fix” would be to change the condition to “other allies mana”, which would fix the precalc to not consider his own mana, and also update his spell text. This should hopefully not be too much of an issue because there are already boost ratios that only consider “other allies” (Sekhma).

Similar thing happens with Undine and submerged allies, and Penglong and enchanted allies, and possibly others. All should specificy other allies for these conditions, and the boost condition for each should be updated to other allies. This would make the counter accurately reflect the boost because it would no longer considers self (note: Undine still needs to count himself when counting Merfolk allies, or the spell would be weaker for no reason). Nothing about how the spells function would change because everywhere it currently considers these paramaters on “self”, they are always impossible to get any boost out of anyways.

I actually believe whoever initially conceived Vorph with this boost ratio didn’t realize this whole “order of operations” thing wouldn’t ever have his damage boost include his own mana, because as pointed out multiple times including in similar bug reports, his damage is pitiful with this boost ratio even with a completely full team (most often compared to Famine at the time, who had/has a x2 boost ratio and can consider 4 targets for boosting). So for all intents and purposes, it is very possible Orpheous was/is “always bugged”: because the intent was for his damage per cast to always be 22 higher than what it is now. Even if he is “working as intended after the fact” (whoever originally designed him probably won’t even remember or cop to not knowing how their mechanics work if it actually wasn’t, even though this was brought up at the time), a boost ratio of at least x2 is in order in addition to fixing it to “other allies” to not consider his own mana on the pre-calc or in the text.

Unless there is an upcoming patch that entirely changes the order of operations, which I find very unlikely due to its potential to break… everything.

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I’ve moved this to the feedback section of the forum as it’s working as intended, but I’m leaving this thread open in my tabs so I remember to make a Quality of Life text change suggestion after lunch :slight_smile:


That’s what I figured – that the damage he’s putting out is correct (it’s already very high, he does need to be doing 22 more damage). But yes, I would like to see the ability text and boost damage show correctly – on him and Undine (his boost is always 8 off because he loses submerge on cast).

Uhh…his damage is terrible. As in, likely the worst single-target damage for any mythic who does damage (it’s hard for him to crack 60 damage under normal circumstances). Counting his own mana into his damage would bring him in line with the other single-target mythics and would be a sensible buff.

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