Updated Mab in PvP graphs


#1

Hi all… here are some graphs that show my current very mixed feelings about this update… yes the content is great, some quality of life stuff is great… but… and yes this is only from my experience, at an early stage so far, and not a statistically significant population and all that… but…

1 - is the ladder really the game’s top players?

Here’s a snapshot showing the percentage distribution by levels of the top 50 and top 100 players on the ladder (as of about an hour ago)… and only 30% of the top 50, and 23% of the top 100, are over level 700 and I might call ‘top tier’ players (let’s not argue on my definition, that isn’t my point, please).

So it may be early days, but this says that it’s far too easy for low to mid level players to get to rank 1 and get points, while high level players face far harder times trying to compete… and I know the game has many more top tier players (from my own guild, chats here, my old pvp experiences)… I am not criticising low level players here, but, ahem, do they belong in the game’s top 50 or 100 players, whilst players who’ve collected everything and built far stronger teams clearly struggle to keep up… what’s the leaderboard trying to do or show? is it to give a chance to low to mid level players to get prizes (admirable idea, but not a true leaderboard)… thoughts anyone?

My instinct is that the PvP points earned could be based on how strong the enemy is and not on how much stronger than you they are… would that help?

2 - Maw and Mercy dominate pvp defends at high level FAR too much

So this won’t surprise many people, and many of us are guilty for sticking out such a defence team, and I am one of them… but… this was my experience from looking for PvP battles this morning, with some dutiful help clicking ‘Refresh’ from my nine-year-old son… so we looked 50 times at the 2 and 3 trophy (‘medium’ and ‘hard’) matches…

For 3 trophy matches, which I really want to be doing… Great Maw appeared in 52% of teams, Mercy appeared in 56% of teams, and 42% of teams had both of them together! That’s nearly half my possible matches are basically a coin toss on whether I have a chance to win or not… and to win the best strategy is almost certainly to use Maw and Mercy myself and hope I fire off first, which is also not so much fun…

For 2 trophy matches, which are less appealing, the figures are slightly reduced but still make unhappy clicking…


#2

To be quite honest, the leaderboard really has very little to do with skill and seems essentially to be a measure of time spent playing.

If they wanted true “skill-based” leaderboards, there’d be a finite number of games per player and some quantifiable measure of success over those trials. Instead, you can accumulate points open-endedly so long as you refuse to eat, sleep, or shower. And who wants to be stinky? This is a measure of time commitment, nothing more.

And yes, Maw/Mercy is getting old.


#3

To be fair, the old PvP rank was also simply a measure of time commitment, just with a hard cap at a level that was achievable by many more players.

Nevertheless, I agree with the main gist of the OP, which is that it punishes high level players for being able to build high value teams - is it possible for a high level player to build a low value team such that they can get better PvP point rewards?


#4

I agree that should be an element of it… but not all of it…

One suggestion would be to have ‘banded’ leaderboards, for players level 0-100, 100-250, 250-500 and 500-1000, perhaps? @Sirrian @Nimhain what do you think? could make it easier to distribute rewards to lower players that will appreciate them more?


#5

Quite agreed! I love 2.0 update, but current ranked pvp is a waste of time.
I think at this time, you guys are forcing old players to leave the game, it’s quite annoying.
To tell you the truth, I can’t find any skillful playing on this ranked pvp rankings. If someone played more than anyone, he’s the king, that’s not fair.
WHY NO SKILLFUL GAMEPLAY RANKINGS???


#6

Level 700+ players are maybe 1-2% of the player base. Claiming 30% of top 50 is definitely considered dominating the board. Any more than this, and the rest of the playerbase would feel like they have no chance, and just give up completely.

Also, right now the numbers are really unstable, since this is only the beginning. When I started playing this morning (about 2 hours ago), I was maybe 200 points behind top 100, yet my rank was outside top 1000. See my point? Right now there are 1000s of players who are really close to each other in points, so things like timezone have much greater effect than a player’s level. Let it run for a full week, then we’ll talk again.


#7

I think that’s a bit hyperbolic. There’s nobody “forcing” anyone to do anything. Bugs aside, resource acquisition relative to time spent playing seems roughly on par, and for those who did more than rank-1-and-done pre-2.0, there’s actually a bit more glory on the way to Tier 1.

Ranked PvP is additional, and requires a ton of time investment for a chance at a few traitstones. It’s really mostly bragging rights.


#8

+1 for this.


#9

I don’t care about what reward will give on top ranked player every week, but if the leaderboard is only focus on who played more are the king on the leaderboard, that would be really sad.


#10

Can’t agree with this, but each to their own…

True, and I did note that it was early days…

I also perhaps made the mistake of making two topics into one - any thoughts @yonizaf on the second chart? how’s your maw-hunting going? or you’re low enough level (not intended as an insult) to see some variety in matches…?


#11

Based on its current implementation, it’s exactly that. Everyone progresses, and even those who progress slowly will be able to rank if they put in more time.


#12

And now, I can imagine that Maw and Mercy will nerf very soon.
SO, YOU GUYS ARE HAPPY NOW.
I really don’t want to see guys usually abuse some kind of troops.


#13

For the record, I love Mercy to death, and I don’t want to see her nerfed. I fail to see how the game can balance around it, though. Maybe the devs will find a solution.


#14

Before 2.0, players need at least 21 pvp matches to reach rank 1.
But after 2.0, players need at least (1900-600)/30=44 ranked matches to reach tier 1.
I don’t need time waste on ranked matches, well that don’t mean I need real time pvp, I don’t like live pvp as well.


#15

Well I’m relatively low and usually I see Goblins and Knights. Not necessarily well traited versions of the teams, but those stand out.

I’ve seen Jarl in a couple of stronger teams but not that often. I guess the most common other team would be “throw our strongest guys out there” team which looks like it sounds. A few semi True Damage teams too. Marilith has been in a few usually with Crescendo and/or Wolf Knight. I’m the only one using Crimson Bat from what I’ve seen.

That’s about the rundown of things though. (I’m level 98 I think now.)


#16

Sorry I have no idea what you mean…


#17

I wish the PvP system would use a proper ELO rating like the old Clanbase used to work with.

  • The 3 options you get to fight should be very near your rank: 1 slightly below, 1 about equal, and 1 slightly above your current rank
  • You win less points for defeating the one below your rank, and more points for the one above your rank.
  • You lose more points when losing to the team below your rank, and less points when losing to the team above your rank.
  • You also lose more points when failing to defend against a lower ranked player.
  • This promotes having to battle higher ranked players to climb.

Now having said that, this is not very casual friendly. So I also suggest to use the old PvP system we had before patch 2.0 in the Casual PvP mode. Players would earn the same rewards as before until rank 1.
Ranked PvP could start after people reach rank 1 in Casual PvP, with people starting at 1500 ELO rating.
Rename the 2 modes if needed, you get the idea.

This way casual players can just level to rank 1 as before and get their rewards. More hardcore players can then start to climb the ladder, starting at 1500 ELO rating and rewards are only the current rewards for top 1000 players.


#18

Sorry, what does “live PvP” have to do with anything? There’s none in-game as of this writing.

As for match count, yes, it’s slower than before. However, considering it was possible to get to rank 1 within an hour of rollover in 1.9, twice as long doesn’t seem too terrible to me.


#19

I wonder all the best I can fight has around 800 gold now after I finished the event ladder. Do you also experience this?


#20

Completely agree with the OP.

On the positive side: I see far fewer goblins in PVP now.

But the number of Maw/Mercy defends (of which my own defend is one) is very high. Approaching 50% of the possible matches for me.

In all fairness: Maw/Mercy is also a very strong invade team, and with the annoying bug of the defend team being the default invade team, maybe a lot of people are now just defending with their invade team to avoid annoying team switching during invades (like I’m doing at the moment).