The Silence of the Devs (Weapon Upgrades)


#1

Once upon a time there was an Undead Mystic named Aziris with the awesome power to create a single skull. And the players rejoiced whenever they enountered him in battle, because he would place that skull randomly, always setting them up to reap the benefits. The Gods remained silent, deeming Aziris worthy of punishment, for whatever reason.

Once up a time there was a patch that introduced the awesome power of weapon upgrades. And the players dispaired whenever using them in battle, because they would randomly interact with a single gem, always setting up the opponent to reap the benefits. The Gods remained silent, deeming the players worthy of punishment, for whatever reason.

To recap:

  • Most full weapon upgrades cost an arm AND a leg, often taking weeks to farm.
  • Most full weapon upgrades make the weapon borderline useless in some way, by changing the spell to add or remove a single random gem.
  • Weapon upgrades can’t be reversed, once you have bought them, you are stuck with the sorry remains.
  • Higher kingdom power levels force players to fully upgrade 8 kingdom weapons, which essentially means breaking all of them.

Dear devs, you’ve ignored this issue when it was brought to your attention by your beta players. You’ve ignored this issue when it was brought to your attention during the patch preview. You’ve ignored this issue when it was brought to your attention after the patch. You’ve ignored this issue when it was brought to your attention as part of your streaming questions. You are currently ignoring this issue as players are finding out the hard way that “upgrade” means the opposite of “better” in GoW.

Please, please, PLEASE break your silence and limit the damage in some way. Tell us something, anything, about how this design attrocity is going to get resolved. That you actually ARE planning to do something about it. Heck, at this point even a “Ha ha, sucks to be you!” would do, at least then we would know that there’s no point in further avoiding fully upgrading weapons in hopes of this getting fixed.


Explode x gem... on mana generation weapons
#2

Another issue to add: class weapons one gets for 250 wins.

After a certain level hero is being treated as a mythic troop, consequently class weapon also becomes mythic and requires mythic ingots to upgrade. I find it absurd that they are treated as Dawbringer level stuff when upgrades are concerned.

It would be fine if low level players (under level 500) could check if those weapons for them show as legendary or lower rarity items and require lower rarity ingots to upgrade. I really don’t remember and only suspect that this was the case.


#3

I don’t believe this is correct. I thought that class weapons were always intended to be mythic, and that the game simply does not show hero weapons as the appropriate rarity. Divine Protector appears to be mythic when I use it on a team, but in the weapon list it correctly shows as legendary.


#4

While you are right, this:

still holds true and is quite laughable, as class weapons are nowhere near the powerlevel of Dawnbringer.
Wasting mythic Ingots into weapons of that powerlevel just hurts, class weapons were introduced much earlier than Dawnbringer and weapon upgrading and their rarity simply doesn’t reflect their power, but since the Devs don’t seem to be up for significantly buffing…well anything old really, at the very least their rarity should be legendary.

And since this seems like a good thread to collect weapon upgrade issues, i’d like to repeat my gripe with +Magic upgrade tiers on weapons that don’t utilize the magic stat in any way, another issue the Devs are awefully silent about (unless they confuse it with the tome talent issue which they explained in a satisfying way but has nothing to do with this one).


#5

While I agree I’d like to see this feature reimagined, I don’t know that this thread brings anything new to the table.

Our only real hope is that beyond the spoilers, there are weapons being designed that help bring more sense to the situation.


#6

I can never read something starting with “The Silence of the…” and not auto-complete it with “lambs.”

There is still to much to be done with weapons, the new features in this update were all rushed, the weapons mostly, since there are a lot of weapons, and i could even accept the issues with the tomes that doesn’t use Magic for nothing.

After all in the list of possible upgrades it feels right that some sorcery stuff like tomes, wands and such would get extra magic power instead of extra attack or whatnot, but it grinds my gears that they created these dumb “create/destroy/explode a random gem of X color…”

Those shouldn’t even been conceived.


#7

First, why though? You think a smart wizard would enchant an item with something 100% pointless because “sorcery, b**ch!”?
Second, it is also with shields, artifacts, jewellery, staffs and daggers…any current weapon that doesn’t utilize the magic stat but has at least one or even more upgrade tiers giving +magic and any future weapon released that doesn’t utilize the magic stat regardless of its type.


#8

I meant it as:

  • Makes sense that a tome would have upgrades that increases it’s magic power.
  • But it doesn’t work for :poop: because a lot of weapons were never designed to use Magic for anything. The problem is that the devs just didn’t looked at the weapons in the first place, just like they didn’t looked at the classes when giving them some talent trees.

In the brainstorm session the devs had while creating a list of possible upgrades it makes perfect sense to have some upgrades that increases magic, but it makes no sense that someone would suggest, and worst of all approve, an “upgrade” that randomizes the board just to put a chance to sabbotage our battles.


#9

I feel like what we have is “a system that could work” but, like Razzagor says, it’s intended to work for some other set of weapons we don’t have.

Which sort of makes sense. It’d be a big undertaking to try and rebalance all the weapons we have under a new system. It’s especially unattractive considering many are basically unattainable.

What doesn’t make sense is having no word on whether there are plans to do that, or whether new weapons are around the corner that are so much more attractive than the current crop we won’t care. I said it shortly after release and I’ll say it again: a lot of upgrades release half-baked in this game, and I’m not sure I’ve seen any of the half-baked ones get revisited and finished.


#10

See, for me an upgrade that does something(regardless of whether you personally like what it does or not) makes more sense than an upgrade(or even more on a single weapon) that does absolutely nothing at all.


#11

I do generally agree that they made some major missteps with weapon upgrading. All the “create/destroy/explode a gem” affixes need to go like yesterday.

But, as far as tomes and magic, Nimhain did state that they have “future” tomes coming out that use magic.


#12

Yes, but the mistake on the devs’ part was they didn’t look if some upgrades would make sense in the current outdated weapons, hence why they won’t benefit from them, pretty much like Titan Class had talent trees that made no sense.

I call this “Tits on men design”, works for nothing on men, but it’s there anyway…

And i believe only the future tomes, and maybe the Daemonicon, will be accordingly revised on their upgrades.


#13

Yes that was in regards to the talent ‘well-read’ which gives + magic when using tomes, and that will retrospectively be “fixed” once new tomes get released that actually utilize the magic stat.

What i am referring to is the weapon-bound Ingot-paid upgrade tiers that give + magic on weapons that don’t utilize the stat, which can be found in many weapon categories and not just tomes(Golden Cog, Cursed Blade, Null Sphere, Ocean’s Protector, and several others), those weapons will forever have gimped upgrade tiers unless they are changed specifically.


#14

Yea, I understood and agree with that point.

I was making the separate point (directly aimed at the statement I quoted) that some of their decisions must be based on future plans we aren’t aware of yet.


#15

I think the create gem gripes is with single creation.
On other weapon, you see more, like 3 gems, that increase your chances.

Case in point: Fire and Ice. It creates a red and a blue, and i often get some mana out of it.
And, since the last trait freeze a troop, the dreaded 4 match is less dangerous.

But alas, synergies are just not there.


#16

Just on the create/destroy/explode a gem argument. I agree on certain weapons that rely on gem creation (Eternal Flame) already it is a handicap, however my first weapon upgraded is Titan’s Bane and I find it great. It has both create AND explode a doomskull, so along with the column destruction it doesn’t often leave 4 matches for the enemy. So I think it can be done, just needs to be thought through.

Normally when, my Runepriest which uses it, has a dust storm up it actually gives me more of a chance of extra turn than from the column destruction alone.

Gaining enrage and splash damage to pop barriers is icing on the cake. :wink:

I have an issue with some wasteful traits like the magic stat as mentioned but the worse ones are like Mountain Crusher has a trait that explodes a brown gem.

Now, if you have a lot of magic the cast has already exploded ALL the Brown on the board so this does nothing!! :astonished:

It’s not the only example, there are a number of weapons that barrier or submerge and them have them as a trait too…


#17

For exploder-type weapons, the “create/destroy a gem” upgrades don’t really matter as these weapons are unreliable to begin with. Eternal Flame is an example of a pseudo-reliable board control weapon that is directly harmed by the gem creation, but even weapons that do no board manipulation at all are negatively impacted, as they go from reliable to unreliable. When I’m about to cast Dawnbringer, for instance, I know I’m about to hand control
Over, and I want to do so on my terms. A random gem creation threatens that reliability. Thankfully I haven’t purchased that trait on any of my weapons and won’t take that risk, kingdom power levels be damned.


#18

It would be nice to be able to de-select specific traits on weapons (all selected by default when unlocked)
But it would be much better (game design) to spend time creating weapon traits that
a) are a benefit (even if situational)
b) are useful and relevant to the weapon that has it

Perhaps the Dev’s could create a “Gamma” test team who could provide suggestions on a few chosen weapons a week to tidy this up
(Same for talent trees)


#19

Weapon upgrades is an excellent system - just implemented really… really… badly.

I mean, we have a bunch of weapons that have end up creating a storm on cast. That’s cool. There’s some that throw a silence on the first enemy. Etc.

We just happen to also have this random nonsense that we yelled at them to change. And the only weapons worth actually using have been saddled with them, looking at you Dawnbringer.


#20

It’'s really counter-intuitive to expect us to treasure/desire ingots on purchases if the highest upgrades acts as deterrents to further investiments.

And not having weapons worth any investiment of ingots certainly doubles the failure of any prospect for gem sinks driving gem sales in the future. Even if the devs just release a bunch of new weapons at once, which seems most likely to happen, we still had plenty of time gathering extra ingots.