Summoned Troop Feedback

You know, summoning and such is needlessly complex. I know of three scenarios and they all have weird downsides and I don’t know when some of them apply. I’d rather it work consistently everywhere.

One mode has been explained to me as, ‘The summoned troop can be up to the Magic of the summoning troop’. But I don’t know how often that’s used. I just looked at the troop “Summoner” and if it were true, a maxed-out Summoner could only summon a level 14 Bone Dragon. I thought there were some troops where the ability text read, “Summon a Level ?? Whatever”, but I can’t find one right now. Maybe I’m confused and it’s “the summoner’s level”, that would make more sense.

Another mode is as described: it takes whatever level it gets from the owner’s collection. But since the AI doesn’t have a collection in non-PvP modes, it seems like a level 1 troop is chosen. This renders those troops sort of useless on defense in those modes.

Then there is “Arena Override” mode. Apparently it was too difficult to special-case code to fix to level 15 in Arena, so instead the code special-cases to fix to level 1. This is another one of those cases where it feels like the devs have explained, “Well, it’s impossible to squeeze blood from a turnip, so instead we squeezed blood from a watermelon.” The end result is everyone learns you DO NOT pick Baby Dragon in Arena, or a handful of other summoning troops. Why are they even in the rotation? Heck if I know. I get the sense this means Arena is marked a “PvP” encounter but also “no collection” on both sides.

I’d like it to be consistent. I think "the summoned troop is either the collection level or, if there is no collection, the level of the summoner. How it would work in every mode:

  • PvP modes with collections (GW, PvP): You get the troop at the level you’ve pushed it, so you have to level both the summoner and the summoned troop for full power.
  • PvP modes without collections (Arena): Both offense and defense get a level 15 troop.
  • PvE modes (Explore, Challenge, Quest, Pet Rescue, Raid Boss, Invasion, Class, Bounty): Troops you summon are the level you’ve pushed it, so you have to level both the summoner and the summoned. Summoned troops are the same power level as the summoner.

That would generate fewer “Why is this troop that level?” bug reports, I think.

Right. It’s min(Deck Level, Caster Magic). If no deck, it will be L1.

I cannot remember any specific one, but every troop with ability “Turn target into card X” was like this. Maybe it was corrected later, I checked it long ago, and didn’t repeat.

I read you wrong first time. So for consistency you want to add special rule for case when collection doesn’t implemented. Specifically, Arena, because I don’t remember any other example. Right?

Well technically there is no collection in Explore or other non-PvP modes like Raid Boss. That’s what led to this thread: it makes no sense for a level 400 troop to summon a level 1 minion. I think it should be something like:

if (hasCollection) {
    summonedLevel = collectionLevel;
} else {
    summonedLevel = casterLevel;

Simple. Two cases still. If you have a collection, you get what’s in the collection. If you don’t, you get the caster’s level. In Arena, you “have no collection”, so no more level 1 dragons, they’ll be 15 like every other Arena troop.

Why not make it ‘max level of (summoned) troop rarity’?

And for resurrection - I’d rather have the exact copy resurrected, than having a level 1 card in place of the original card, i.e. Infernal King in Pet Rescues.

Both of them only apply to non-competitive modes, where the AI has no own deck to choose from.

It enables “fast progress”. Imagine a newbie pulls Giant Spider, and doesn’t even have Spider Swarm yet. Now they have access to a level 17+ Spider Swarm without paying a soul. Similarly, it’d be goofy if, in Pet Rescue events, the low-level troops were summoning higher-level troops. Finally, it still doesn’t solve the problem of a level 8,000 badass summoner calling in a level 1 chump.

I forgot to mention Resurrection but I agree: it should always be a copy of the card that is being resurrected. That just makes the most sense.

Aha, so for “No collection” you still mean “no card in collection”.

Hmm. I don’t know, if it ever have sense. On the one hand, anyone without card will benefit from it. And on the other - such peoples are AI or newbie anyway, so have sense. Try to promote it into separate “Suggestion” thread - because this is not a bug, right? :slight_smile:

Why? All that does is hurt newer players and make a long and boring battle even longer

It does that for you as well.
To clarify my post above, I meant only for the AI.
I know we need some more consistency with ‘having a deck’ or ‘having none’ in regards to spawning (in which resurrecting also falls).
Specifically for resurrection - it should resurrect as the exact same copy as it was before.
Summoning should either be as high of a level as the summoner, it’s magic stat or max level of the summoned troops rarity with no traits.

Sorry I’m really tired and not quite understanding you here.

It does in pvp and explore. When my Sunbird resurrects it comes back the same expect losing whatever bonuses it gained at the start of the battle and in battle.

In pvp I want that but in pet battles I would hate to come into the game with only 10 minutes left and not be able to finish the last battle because Infernal King kept resurrecting with 100 health and 100 armour or Goblin King kept summoning 100 health goblins.

I think they should come in at the summoners magic level but can’t exceed the level you have it at or if unowned or should come in at the highest level possible for it base variety. As far as traits it should have as many traits as you have on your owned one.

So if you have a Giant Spider with 22 magic but only an epic Spider Swarm it will come in at level 18 but if you don’t own Spider Swarm it will come in at level 15.

It works as intended for player-controlled teams, as they have an actual deck to choose leveled and traited cards from.
But it doesn’t for the AI, because they have no ‘deck’ to choose from. Thus they summon/ressurect as L1 cards.

I just want them to follow a simple rule

  • Resurrect as the original card
  • Summon a card at its max level based on base rarity

OK, we’ve been back and forth a couple of times. Your ruleset has a piece that is bad. First, let me explain the two cases.

Has a collection is a case where your opponent is the AI representing a human player. For example, in PvP, I can fight you. You have a collection.

No collection is a case where your opponent is the AI and does not represent a human player. Since it is not a human player, it does not have a collection.

For resurrection, we agree: the card that returns should be the same as the card that was first on the board. Collections don’t matter for this case.

For summoning, I think collections matter, but the rule has to respect that collections aren’t always there. I think:

  • If the summoner “has a collection”, the level of the troop from the collection should be used. If the collection is missing the target card, Lv. 1 should be used.
  • If the summoner “does not have a collection”, the level of the troop should match the average level of the summoner’s team.

My problem with “use the maximum level of the troop rarity” is it gives progress where none has been made. Giant Spider summons Spider Swarm. What if my Spider Swarm is Lv. 1? I don’t think my Giant Spider should summon a Lv. 17 or whatever Spider Swarm. I should have to level Spider Swarm if I want to summon a higher level one.

I will never be in a “no collection” state. You will never be in a “no collection” state. We are players, we always have a collection. So the only special rule we need is for, “What if I don’t own the card?” and I think it’s most in line with the pattern to give a Lv. 1 in that case.

The CPU can be in a “no collection” state, so we need a rule for that. In this case, it doesn’t seem right to use Lv. 1 or “the highest level for the troop rarity”. Imagine a level 270 Summoner is summoning in a Raid Boss battle. This match is obviously supposed to put you against very hard troops. So summoning something from level 17-20 is silly, you’re going to obliterate it. So I think if the AI is in a “no collection” state the appropriate rule is “use the average level of the current team”.

So really my three cases are:

  • If the player or CPU has a collection AND that collection contains the troop, use the troop’s current collection level.
  • If the player or CPU has a collection and that collection DOES NOT contain the troop, use Lv. 1.
  • If the CPU has no collection, use the average level of the team.

Checked, just in case I missed something.

Nah, nothing changed. Resurrected Sunbird still governed by summoning rules - i.e. resurrection under Web results in L1 bird.

Um, actually, that’s the point of having summoning/resurrecting troops against you. You can blame developers for bad troop composition, but it’s quite strange to demand them deliberately broke rules to make player life easier.

  1. Yes, that’s what we all agree on and what is used by now anyways.

  2. The CPU never has a collection (outside of PVP) and that is why

  3. Is contradicting with point 2

I don’t have an idea on how to ‘fix’ the issue we’re talking about. We just need a rule as to ‘how to handle spawning troops without owning them’.
My suggestion would work for everything except raid/invasion, yours works everywhere.

Essentially, we found a solution. :+1: