Sugestion: rework Dark Master and Summoner

I was thinking of these two older troops that didn’t scale well at all for me:

Dark Master

Currently, Dark Master deals only 9 damage, regardless of his Magic. Making that actually kill an opponent is very hard, and just for 2 Attack for everyone? Even if you consider that it summons a Thrall, that doesn’t justify the high cost of 13 mana.

I’d recommend that you make his spell damage scale with Magic. Maybe [Magic], or [Magic/2 + X], I don’t know. But 9 damage is unlikely to kill anyone, even on Normal Explore. Or maybe keep the 9 damage, but always raise everyone’s attack by 1 when you cast the spell, even if you don’t kill anyone?


Ok, I get it, his main use is, well, summoning. But his healing is very weak, while the spell also costs 13 mana, which is very high for what it does. Ok, you get to summon a Ghoul, but I still don’t think it’s worth it.

I’m going to compare him to Naga Queen (which is UR, and Summoner’s Rare – I’m aware of that), whose spell costs 12 mana. She heals everyone for [Magic], and her magic caps at 4, but the kingdom bonuses makes her scale really well later in the game. Not to mention she also converts gems, which is a lot more useful than getting a Ghoul.

I know you can’t set Summoner’s magic to cap at 4 because of the summoning aspect of his spell, but maybe you could make him heal all allies [Magic/3] life? This way, a fully leveled (to 16, not ascended) Summoner would heal the same 4 Life, but he could also scale better for later in the game, when people have magic bonuses from kingdoms/statues/sentinels.

Maybe there are more troops like this, but those 2 caught my attention.

Thanks for reading.


The game has c. 350 troops, and probably 300 of them are rubbish, and need buffing or re-working…

You might like this thread: Troop Buff A-H Thread With Summary

(haven’t posted there recently, prob time to revive)

I think summoner will get some redesign in Groshnak rework. I’d bet he will be able to summon a random Groshnak troop instead of what he does now.


Just you wait and see, Don…Gar’Nok will take over the world with his army of super buffed orcs, ha ha!!!


If you compare to other summoners, like Giant Spider, Sir Gwayn, etc… they are indeed very weak.
The Summoner should at least cleanse in addition to heal. Dark master should give +2 to all skill if he miraculously kills someone.

Summoner and Dark Master are both Rare troops, implying to me that they are intended for early-game play, not necessarily to be carried into end-game.

What do others think of this?


While i do agree with this👆i still think SOME rework would be good😎


I think that all summoners need to scale in something else than the level of the summoned troop. Even with only by Magic/2 or even Magic/4… at least they need to scale somewhere else.

If troops are designed exclusively for early game usage or any specific area of play then why did the developers bother to create Ascension (AFTER the game launched) or Leveling for that matter at all? it was be far simpler to balance troops with static stats. (the Questions is rhetorical). Lack of Accension would absolutely ensure Rares stay in there place at early game.
There are a few solid troops in there for late game and even GW, should they be hammered down to prevent them being carried into late game play or Guild Wars?

I agree with the general principal higher level troops should be more powerful, but more viable troops is great for variety and the game itself. Just look at the forums over the last 2 years: post and post always looking for variety.

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There are multiple perspectives from which to look at the issue of buffing early-game troops. I’ll talk about the ones I feel are most germane in order of importance.

Least important From a mid- to late-game player perspective it does look like these troops are feeble and of highly questionable use. I won’t pretend for a second that I haven’t lamented this on occasion. I relate to the feelings of leaning on a Troop heavily in early game and slowly realizing that I need to move on. “its not you its me” type of thing :laughing: Or needing a Troop in a team slot which one of those would fit perfectly, but you look at it and can’t help but observe the Troop is now miles behind other recently acquired Troops.

Very important From the game design or player experience standpoint, I remember those troops coming into the picture as my first introduction to group heals, on-death traits and how the summoning mechanics worked. Plus all the new play strategies that open as a result. A part of the game that is in careful balance.

The mother of all importance The cold hard reality of the games world: player retention.

Looking at all of them together this is where my opinion comes in plus listening to Sirrian’s words on the subject in the past.

Adjusting anything in the early part of the game, the part that is so critical to both the pleasure the player experiences and the bottom line of player-retention, I would think it most reasonable to conclude that those troops will never get a meaningful adjustment. Like probably ever.

But the OP’s suggestions don’t affect the troops’ early game stats? His entire suggestion is about how simple and plausible it would be to make them scalable, i.e, not appreciably different from their current stats for player level <100 or questlines, but still usable for player level >500 for specialty purposes, like events or GW teams.

As for a lack of early game buffs? It’s happened before, with Dire Wolf being the most poignant example that comes to mind. I now know better than to ever cast off a troop as completely hopeless, after seeing what became of Kerberos… I have high hopes for Gar’Nok and his minionfolk.


Why are you calling out such a long and well crafted rebuttal to the OP’s late game request? When the rebuttal so expertly utilized the age old technique of:

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Dark Master is actually pretty decent early on. Just doesn’t scale well. I think that’s fine; not every troops needs to be viable at every stage of play.

Summoner definitely needs some love.

Or just “Gwayn” them, to, for exemple , 1-2 ghouls instead of 1

It is only a straw man to those who intentionally ignore all meaningfully things said in order to make a useless, rude comment as you usually do.

I killed someone with Dark Master just recently (spawned after Elspeth killed one of my other troops).

Surprised the heck out of me too.

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That’s getting a bit personal… I’m sure @strat wasn’t intending to be rude or nasty. It was an insensitive response, maybe, but let’s not have any rudeness or escalation guys.

Your post on buffing early game troops was well-written and made a lot of sense to me. But @Zuboki was right to point out that this isn’t what the OP was about.

  1. I wasn’t replying to you but to @Zuboki for commenting that you took the OP suggestion of buffing 2 troops in late game, ignored it, and wrote a few paragraphs about buffing them in early game. I still agree with his opinion, and my succinct assessment. I’ve always been pithy, and will apologize when I’m wrong.

  2. Thanks for not resorting to childish name calling like you have in previously, your civility is a welcome change.

  3. If you feel “I usually make useless comments rude comments”. I find that a very interesting perspective, but will take @Jainus comments to heart and let the comment rest.

When s**t gets real in a thread about a Dark Master rework, you know Dark Master really needs it!

Summoner, i think will be dealt with in the GroshNak rework as @DonBoba said.