Skeleton... OP common card?


#1

Hi,

Is it just an idea of mine or is the Skeleton firepower overlooked by everyone?

I mean, Skeleton’s spell is cheap, bring lots of skulls, an extra turn and a lot of attack and is a common card.
Now there’s a legendary weapon : “Nysha’s Skull”. Sure, it brings more skulls, but it cost lmost twice the mana ad doesn’t add any attack at all… And it’s supposed to be a legendary card?

That wasn’t much of an issue when Skeletons were level 15 as common cards. Now they are a real threat without even reaching lvl 20 / Mythic since their initial stats are way higher gaining 1 of every stats but magic per level / ascension.

Now one lucky Skeleton spell can easily lead to a fast one turn kill with the only counterplay of taking purple mana gems before the ennemy, but how fast can a Skeleton really come at you?

3 gems matched makes 3 mana. A mana surge will rise that to 6 mana. An additionnal Karakoth’s banner to 8 mana. Finally, a magic link, provided by -say- a giant spider, will grant you full mana in a very simple 3 gem match.

That’s nerf worthy in my opinion. This spell shouldn’t give an extra turn OR improve armor instead of attack.

What’s your thoughts fellow forumers?


#2

Nysha’s skull still scales off magic, so it can still do this:

http://i.imgur.com/nkd46uh.png

However, I still hate how skeleton gains attack, as it clears itself of entangle right before it creates skulls and gains an extra turn. All after matching a single purple. Silence is the only viable defense against them.


#3

Silence, entangle, half damage from skull trait, direct damage, stealing their purple. There are lots of defenses.

Let’s not start the nerf wars again. There are too many variables that haven’t been factored in yet. (Traits).


#4

Entangle won’t actually work on them because the ability buffs their attack, thereby removing entangle. Scary.

Fairly sure Skeleton isn’t overlooked, its just not the only troop that does this right now.


#5

Entangle does not work because they self gain attack, which clears entangle. Stoneskin will only make them kill you in two hits instead of one after they boost their attack a couple times. It takes them one purple match to fill with a mana surge; cutting purple will only work for so long before they get lucky. Silence and agile are the only chances of victory.


#6

Ahah, yeah, I know how differently they can scale, but that’s very situationnal and won’t make Nysha any more viable and Skeleton any weaker :stuck_out_tongue:

Yeah, The Silent One is the only one shutting those down… Though he is much weaker than before now that there are traits to counter him ! (Making scouting worth the 50 gold)…

@Machiknight as I said, stealing their purple isn’t really a viable strategy. Direct damage isn’t one either, you gotta collect skulls to do that, but most part ofthe time, you are robbed of the usable skulls created by the skeletons. And, yeah, entangle doesn’t work on troops powering their attack up.

@Shimrra Among common troops, I’m pretty sure only 5 are viable.
Skeleton (for the reasons I gave)
Centaur Scout and Glade Warden (for agile / true shot ; agile being obviously bugged at the moment)
Goblin (for the goblin decks)
Golem (for the amazing SKULL ONLY resistance)

Now if you look at the others, there are COMPLETE garbage cards as Peasant or Fortress Gate. Even some rare cards are way bellow these five (lookin’ at you Warhound…)

So, yeah, I see a lot of people complaining about the goblins but everyone seems to just let the Skeletons be…


#7

I would argue that Reaver and Rock Worm are also viable (and Satyr and Pride Hunter at least usable). And that Golem is absolutely not.

The reason people complain about the Goblins is that there are still far more of them.


#8

Yeah, River is good, but not “viable” as he is behind Centaur Scout and Glade Warden in what makes him good : his traits.
(By the way, I noticed he has a BIG problem of synergy, removing red gems with his spells and having the fire spirit trait !).

I did forget Rock Worm (though it’s a bit weak in the hand of AI that will just break his combo anytime a 3 skull match is up). Rock Worms though will only work when 4 of them are lined up where only one Skeleton can be used in the middle of a deck and still be very powerfull.

I do find Golem viable as it’s a cheap Stoneskin and the only troop using Inscribed. It does stall incredibly well against teams built around the transformation of the gems (alchemist, Green slime etc…). I used it in a deck that works very well with only 3 cards as long as they stay alive, behind a wall such as Golem, they stay alive long enough to start their combo. Golem’s explode can even be used wisely to get extra turns (not reliable in te hands of AI though)


#9

Golem is awesome; he shreds the enemies of all armor at the start of the match. Works well with Shadow Hunter, damage to all enemies, or any other high damage spells. Try:

Golem
Behemoth
Rock Worm
Hero (Prismatic Orb)

Note using Prismatic Orb on Golem gives 7 armor, which with stone skin is more like 14.


#10

A good majority of the commons are quite strong. I don’t mind for it gives newer players a fighting chance and better options for team building.

Also, in regard to Nysha’s Skull, you have to keep in mind that it is one of the strongest weapons in the game. It is basically the only weapon/troop in the game that scales gem spawning with magic. Get a magic boost on Nysha’s Skull, like Sooth, and it becomes ridiculously powerful.


#11

Did you fall from the moon? Skeleton is one of the most viable troop since 1,07 (not the recent 8) came out. The major bloom was probably on the week of Slime but even after it got nerfed, many many teams worked great, including the vanilla 3 skeleton+whetever.


#12

Well, few weapons are worth a shot to begin with.

The only one I use outside of arena are gem spawners and also gem-spawn-magic-scaling

Exhaustive list of the weapons gem-spawn-magic-scaling :
Eternal Flame
Farsight Orb
Sheggra’s heart
Vile Flask
Nysha’s Skull

What actually makes Nysha strong is that spells aren’t strong in high level games since magic doesn’t keep up with the upgrades of stats the troops now gets on the last 5 levels + ascensions.
Now it’s only strong when coupled with magic boosts and when boosted, it will

Vile flask is garbage in my opinion (too few gems spawned at average magic level for a cost way too high)

Sheggra’s heart is quite good and, combined with Sheggra, will laugh at Nysha

Farsight Orb is great, as it increase a random skill by 5, increasing magic will increase gems spawned. and has a low cost

Eternal Flame is ridiculously strong as it lets you choose the first gem you’ll turn, almost ensuring an extraturn everytime for the ridiculous cost of 6 mana, way too easily attainable with Air Link

@Pasa it was already strong, but its previous base stats made it way too easy to crush them before they got started, and without magic link, it was way harder to start a combo. You had to load up Green Slime, having to choose between a good banner for Green Slime and having a good banner for Skeleton. Besides, loading up Green Slime doesn’t always seal the deal when played by AI. Now, these decks are just no brainers, really strong while really cheap.


#13

In 1.07 you got fine team bonuses for the 2 or 3 skels and on attack you won in 2-3 turns, no problem if lost one of them due to early problem. Certainly you set purple bonus and the last troop is support for purple – the orb even healed.

With 1.08 no more team bonus, but instead we got a ton of extra stat and traits. It’s probably better to just use 2 (or even 1).

The point on OP I was reacting was “overlooked”, it definitely was not.


#14

I didn’t mean overlooked as in “no one plays it, it has gone unnoticed”, but more like “it’s freaking OP, most people knows it, but everyone is looking the other way and only complain about goblins, why?”

“Overlook” may have been a wrong word, I’m not a native Engish speaker :confused:


#15

There are two posts, so far apart in separate threads that they can be easy to miss, so I link them below. Basically, they know some re-balance is needed, but want to tread carefully because of all the investment players have made in troops. I know skeleton was being talked about by us players in the thread, so I bet its on the list, on how it can be nudged without destroyed.

Buried in another thread is this comment:

Sirrian noted that there will be some look at where stats need to be balanced.

and this by Nimhain:


#16

Thanks.
I had seen the second topic, but left before people started to mention the Skeletons.
Hadn’t read the first topic you linked though. Glad to know devs are ready to react to this matter :slight_smile:


#17

I’ve had Skeleton firmly in my nerf-gun sights for a long time, since the update that first gave it an extra turn (forget when) and more so since the update that gave it the attack buff as @pasa rightly points out.

Right now I’d argue it’s the single best troop in the game for the reasons in the opening post. Centaur and GWarden may rival it for their broken pairing of true shot and agile traits.

Skeleton can charge on a single 5 purple match, and easily charges with any purple booster or spell that makes purple. One cast gives it enough attack to two-hit anything - while placing skulls and getting an extra turn to be highly likely to get two attacks off the one cast. It also takes little skill to use so is deadly on the AI defence teams - and entangle is no counter.

OP? I’ve been saying so for ages… if nothing is done to balance things, I think that True Shot plus Skeleton will become the only playable combo - as more players unlock the traits and notice this obvious pairing, the only reliable way to beat it will be to play the same strategy and hope you fire your skeleton before the AI does. Back to TSO situation of a year ago…


#18

Stone Skin, Agile, Trueshot, vs Undead trait, Silence, Hunter’s Mark, Counter attack (Cursed Blade + Faunessa) and deny purple teams are all viable counters …

Infact I use Cursed Blade + Alchemist + Faunessa (full mana start) + Faunnessa (full mana start) for any team that either starts with high attack or has the ability to gain high attack … Faunnessa even starts battle fully charged and actually charges faster than Skellies with two color options :wink:

I have also had success with Hunter’s Mark + Trueshot or Exploder teams against Skeletons (Hunters mark doubles damage which with trueshot or vs undead makes Skeletons one hit wonders! But setup is a bit more risky)!

Recently I have also been experimenting with Avina as the Skeleton tank (double damage vs undead + Agile + True Shot) - fully traited she one hits Skeletons on her own :stuck_out_tongue:

I think all these “nerf” calls are from people that are pissed they now need to Scout before battles and have a few viable attack teams ready … requires some testing and a bit of thought at battle time … which is a bit more difficult than having one cookie cutter build that facerolls everything :stuck_out_tongue:

7


#19

Not really, I beat the skeletons easily as long as I scouted first, wich I don’t.
I still beat them with my farming deck most of the time, but I find it quite sad that braindead decks built around a common troop spam can just ruin you by matching 3 random purple gems…


#20

Hear hear! Sounds like there is a very active meta in place now!