@Sirrian when will mythic tasks come next??i want them to be…100 million to unlock a random cosmetic that can be placed on any troop…my gobtrufflr needs sunglasses!
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No tassarion needs a wand instead of a book
I don’t think “not every guild can afford it” is bad. The thing I hang up on is more, “What happens to a guild that can’t afford it?” and, “Where is the bar that lets players F2P?”
This “update to the update about the update” seems to have satisfied the numbers people who were upset. I still wonder if it doesn’t represent a small push of that F2P point upwards.
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Minus the low value of 1 mythic and 20 legendary troops on average. Because this is TOO MUCH value tied up with end players.(who dont need it and consider it low value?)
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The chance for a Legendary or Mythic troop might be “useless” to a lot of endgamers, but for my guild it is like a mini-Christmas when one hits. I have all the Mythic troops (except Zuul) so it’s not about me having something taken away - but for the rest of my guild, many of whom are still trying to build their collections - getting a surprise Mythic can be huge. It means they don’t need to dump 600+ Event keys when that troop’s kindgom comes around or save up Diamonds for upwards of 6-8 weeks to use in the Soulforge. Getting a useful Legendary is a nice perk, too, and getting out-of-season Imps from LTs has helped more than one person fill out their collection.
It doesn’t matter if the mathematical chance to pull a Mythic troop specifically is higher with the awarded Keys. Keys don’t replace that psychological “OMG” moment when you see the troop in your mailbox.
The fact that this is somehow “too valuable” and had to be scaled back boggles my mind. There is a constantly-growing pool of Mythic troops in the game. Crafting them all in the Soulforge without spending real money will now take a new player something like 6 years (45 Mythics x 7 weeks each for the Forge if buying the daily Gem pack = 315 weeks = 6 years. Xathenos & Zuul were not counted as they are craft-only using other recipes.) and that’s assuming he or she does not miss any further new releases. How in the world does occasionally being absurdly lucky and pulling one from a LT unbalance anything?
[edit] Corrected my time estimate for crafting after checking the current pool of Mythic troops.
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This is much better. There is just still this disconnect with the tokens. There just doesn’t seem to be an understanding by the devs on how the players place need and value on them. I’ll try to explain this a couple different ways.
NEED: We normally receive 14 troops a month meaning we need to average 189 tokens a week just to keep up with incoming troops. 13 Isn’t even noticeable. To acquire 189 tokens it will cost us about 2 hours of explore game play every day. I believe the dev assumption is that we don’t need upgrade every troop. This is a lack of understanding who their client base is. Of course we need to. It’s a check box that needs to be checked. The need is not exclusive to end gamers or early gamers. It affects us all.
VALUE: Medals upgrade troops in a similar manner as souls do. Medals essentially upgrade a troop to levels 21, 22, and 23. Following the path of soul’s escalation these levels would cost 400 souls per level. 1 Medal = 400 souls. 1 Token = 50 souls. Looking at the soul cost in normal tasks compared to the ET cost for tokens is disproportionate.
Unless ET change the word token to medal or start adding some zeros behind those numbers they’ll never be worth it to fill our huge need.
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This was a point of high contention on the beta thread this time around.
Whenever the devs use the phrase “gem value”, they are referring to a mathematical value assigned to each possible reward outcome that in sum equates to a desired total net reward per a certain amount of a given activity. The problem often lies in valuing rewards with completely uncertain outcomes that may take a long time for a single instance of that outcome to occur.
Mythics in LTs are a great example of this. Let’s say for the sake of simple math that a Mythic in an LT has a 10000 gem value and there is a 0.5% chance of that outcome occurring. Multiplying the two results in a 50 gem value being assigned to that chance. That means that 50 gems’ worth of rewards is being tied up in every LT for the moonshot chance of pulling a Mythic. This is what Sirrian is referring to when he says that too much gem value is tied up in LTs.
Also as a very quick side note, it is very likely that mythic items such as sacred treasures and arsha tokens are valued at several thousand gems apiece and are the reason why they aren’t in the newer versions of Epic Tasks.
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Here is my rebuttal using both your need and value topics.
NEED: First off, it’s not a need. it’s a need for the types that want to grind for every single troop to get a medal, not even counting getting them to silver or gold. So your numbers and assertion about the time it will take is absolutely spot on. What ISN’T spot on is your assumption the general player base cares about medaling every single troop in the game. It was meant as another resource and time sink mechanic, but it’s very small minority who wants to max everything that actually cares about the medals.
VALUE: The value of medaling troops is almost never worth the cost to do it. Sure, it will be worth medaling certain troops on teams you use extremely often such as key team troops or converters. Outside of that most troops aren’t worth medaling especially mythics. Your boosts come from the global medals, team bonuses, kingdom power/level. So again your numbers are spot on, but your assertion that it’s actually worth medaling everything is wrong.
Yes, the players have a right to play how they want and max everything to kingdom come, but when it comes to medals, this system was never meant to be maxable in a reasonable time frame, even with incredible grinding.
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They are nerfing the gem keys they give out because some people have 20,000 gem keys. 
Don’t think you are going to talk them out of that. Be glad we got a few more keys and will get a few more seals next patch.
NEED: Are you saying that the general player base plays a collection game and doesn’t care about collecting? I’m sorry, but you are in the minority there.
VALUE: You would be correct so long as upgrading troops with medals was never tied to kingdom upgrades or any achievements.
Agreed. But also, I think people forget or don’t realize that the devs have mentioned on stream that enhanced troops are probably going to count towards future kingdom stars.
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I really don’t believe I am. And by the way troop collecting is far different than medal collecting let’s be clear about that part.
Also its pretty rich so many here are complaining about all these useless resources, yet white pet food and pets themselves are a far bigger blocker to progression then the imaginary kingdom blocker of medaled troops that hasnt even come into the game. Not to mention it will most likely be “medal a troop from that kingdom” and that could mean a common troop, which is insanely easy. So tell me again how this will stop progression?
I stand by my belief that most of the player base is not solely motivated by medalling all troops. I’m part of a pretty large network and getting troops trumps medals by a long shot.
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Compared to them increasing the seals amount despite individuals having 100,000 seals.
Blaming players for the business decisions that 505 makes is substantially ridiculous.
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There is a slight difference between gems and seals. Gems can accumulate passively (at most opening the game once an hour), whereas seals require players to do something in the game. The latter looks much better for metrics funding sources might care about.
I still don’t understand why ETs can’t be optional - if the rewards are so awesome for some tasks and some people - let them do it.
If ET rewards are not that appealing to others - let them do the LTs.
Since devs are claiming rewards are almost the same, I don’t see any harm by offering options.
THAT would increase the fun. Real fun, not the fun spelled with an M, as in Money.
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Pets are a progression blocker for many players. Granted, it’s getting enough copies to mythic those pets that’s the biggest bottleneck. I know more people that don’t have enough copies of a pet they need than are worried about food. (That said, I know that some people do need pet food. I doubt any serious amount of people are actually arguing that point.)
However, to claim people shouldn’t be concerned about enhancing troops just because you aren’t concerned is beyond myopic. The fact is that the devs have stated that enhanced troops will play a part in progression in the future. That isn’t “imaginary”. As for how many enhanced troops will be needed and at what rarity, no one knows that. Anything said on those details would be pure “pie in the sky” or “doom and gloom” speculation.
The point is that people have the luxury to ignore enhancing troops now. But, people who care about game progression won’t be able to ignore them forever. So, it’s perfectly reasonable for some players to want to discuss the amount of tokens and types of tokens given by tasks in this new update.
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perhaps devs needed to be reminded again that this is a troop collecting game, the fun part of getting a new mythic troop, the fun part of trying a new mythic troop, the fun part of trying to make a team with mythic troop cannot be equated to the fun of increasing pet level or the fun part of medalling an existing troop.
new mythic troop will make players happier because they can immediately try it, pair it with other troops, take the new troop to delves, pvp, etc, level it to max and try beating something thy couldn’t beat before…
and that part of fun although a little, (less than 20%) is the fun part that devs has eliminated with making ET mandatory.
and didn’t devs said that they are in the business of fun? this is totally the backward of fun, this is boring
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To clarify, I don’t care if players focus on medalling. If that’s your thing, then that’s your thing more power to you. What I am arguing is that medaling doesn’t have to be a “have to medal all troops”. This is a WANT of that player not a NEED. Even in the scenario where it blocks progression it wont require medalling of 700 plus troops. If you medal casually now you’ll probably have more than enough to bust through the blocks, still easier than RNG with pets. Only extreme end gamers and players who play in high end guilds don’t have pet food or pet issues.
With these tasks you are getting a good amount of tokens and combined with actually playing the game for tokens (which should be the way it goes anyway) you should be able to easily medal most of the troops a player uses. To go past that point is purely for mechanics or features not even listed yet. If you take a look at the current requirements for power levels and kingdom levels you dont have any medal requirement. Could this change? Sure, but by that time you’ll have already medaled enough naturally to be just fine. And shouldn’t progression be tied to actually playing for it opposed to just being given Nysha and Anu medals from ETs? In that scenario, it’s even more rich get richer poor get poorer.
Unless the value of medals increases, I see no reason tokens would be increased in ETs.
I don’t want to get into the whole discussion here, but my issue with medals is exactly this statement. Most troops that players use are of epic or higher rarity. Currently, it’s basically impossible to medal mythic troops. I’ve done dozens of hours of explore and I’m only 1/9 of the way to medaling my first mythic. I only have 3 legendary medals, of the 6 that you’d need to fully upgrade a legendary troop in the standard way.
I think people were hoping that guild tasks would make it possible to eventually upgrade legendary and mythic troops. They don’t do that. They could add dozens of common/rare/ultra-rare tokens and it wouldn’t address the problem with mythics.
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Point def taken in that respect! Of course I would love more Nysha and Anu tokens. Rather, I wish the value of medaling a mythic or legendary equaled the time it took to get said medal. I guess my point is, whether you medal a mythic or not, it doesn’t really make a gameplay difference since the skills points for elite levels is pretty poor. Hopefully there comes a balance to this at some point either making it worth medaling a mythic, or increasing lengendary/mythic token drop rates(or including in ETs/LTs). The latter being the current discussion, but doesn’t solve for the fact that elite levels aren’t worth what they should be IMO, thus driving their value down.