No, he is basing the min/max argument on the fact that players using the elspeth defense got easier fights across the board, whether they took the easiest elspeth fights or not. You were gaming the system for EASY fights.
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Read @beanie42 post directly above yours. Heâs SKIPPING Elspeth matches. So he isnât fighting her at all. Try again.
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Actually, he was refuting the idea that it was being done to break PVP monotony and he did so by saying âYouâre seriously going to argue that endless battles where Elspeth kills herself is fun?! Give me a break!â
Youâre talking in circles.
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The best part of all this âgaming the systemâ bullshit is that thereâs actual betters and glitchers out there that have been âgaming the systemâ for MONTHS and this is the the hill the diehards want to die on. ROFL
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A valid argument could be made that anyone that puts event troops on defense are gaming the system for more revenge,rivals, and increased opportunities to see event troops themselves.
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The resources arenât even at all. First, the matches go so much quicker that the gold reduction per match is more than offset by the time per match. Second, even if we allow that to not be true, you also get Seals and Trophies on a per-fight basis so speed matters nonetheless.
Itâs incredible the mental gymnastics people are trying to use to justify the exploit.
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Uh oh, thatâs gonna leave a mark. 
That was my first quoteâŚ
Where⌠where exactly did I call everyone a cheater OR a liar?
I set no tone, certainly not trying to poke direct accusations at any ONE person⌠you on the other handâŚ[quote=âhtismaqe, post:226, topic:24808â]
youâre a douchebag.
[/quote]
Before I lose my cool, Iâm going to ignore this thread. Iâll let you get in one more defamatory remark in against me and have your âlast wordâ in. But just as your typing your foul comment, just remember⌠Whatever makes you feel big, mate.
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The point I was trying to convey in a round about way is all this bickering is superficial and superfluous.
I look at the couple of your last posts and no that is not the tone he set.
He didnât call anyone a liar and if any term would apply it is apologist, though he didnât use that one either.
In any case using the Elspeth optionloit makes the game easier for you, unless you purposely also use a weak invade team to keep the challenge alive, since you know you only do this exploit to get rid of the monotony, not the challenge right?
Whatever your personal motives for it may be and it is a very logical assumption that most do it to make gathering resources faster and easier, as many players have stated this in the several threads that bosted about this issue over the past months, it makes the game easier for them and that is very obviously against the design intent, and now it is fixed(albeit not in the best or most elegant way).
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I think everyone is conflating two issues:
- Thereâs a problem with the meta and, really at the heart of it, a problem with the way Defense is treated in general.
- 1-troop defenses was clearly an exploit that enabled players to get resources more quickly/easily. It needed to be closed. It got closed. Thatâs as it should be.
Is there still a problem with #1? Yes. Definitely. But I think it does a disservice to #1 when itâs conflated with #2.
The Events system was supposed to help with this but it largely did not. Sometimes it does (I saw a lot of Divine teams last week after never seeing them otherwise) but more often than not it has no effect and can even make a bad situation worse (oh those BeastsâŚ). Clearly something needs to be done to address the way Defenses work.
There are some very good suggestions in the Guild Wars - Master Concerns List thread I started, and I know Iâve read them elsewhere, so I suggest trying to keep it civil and constructive. To be honest, Iâm pretty disappointed with how downhill the community has gone since the release of GW.
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My play style isnât as quick as some, since I always try to maximize my souls. I didnât track seals/trophies since they werenât as relevant to me, but when I faced weaker teams my gold was 10-15% higher and my glory was 20-25% higher. So somewhat significant but not crazy high, and not my motivation for doing it. But I can understand what youâre getting at.
But that goes back to this fix being a bad one. If using a low level team is an âexploitâ, they havenât fixed it. All theyâve done is limited it to players VIP 5 or less who can field 4 weak troops. If the problem was people attacking Elspeth, they could have just prevented her as the single defense. As I said, I think there was a legit problem, but the way they fixed it is a bit conflicted and incomplete.
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Which is what @Sirrian said in the OP
This is only a quick fix, not a permanent one.
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lol - will be adressed soon
True, but unfortunately âsoonâ is often months, and Iâm worried that I may have far fewer guildmates by the time itâs implemented. Regardless of whether you think change was good or not, it affects end game high VIP players in a far more significant and unavoidable way.
I canât the same issues are still being argued back and forth.
- The exploit is still possible with four troops weak troops instead of one. Discounting your global score bonus, even four level 10 common troops have a score of +1400, while four level 15 commons have a score of +2100. Single fully traited level 20 mythic ascended Elspeth or any other similar single troop had a score of +1300. Maxed teams have a score of +5200. Full VIP does give you a disadvantage in gaming the system, but the system still has a gaping loophole in it.
- Peoples single troop defenses appear to be serving up full teams with the score equal to what their single troop was. This is an even worse exploit that needs to be fixed immediately.
- The âfixâ appears to be not targeted at overall gaming the system at all, but rather at the speed and ease at which single troops (specifically Elspeth) could be flipped for free resources and how it was âdamaging to the long term health of the gameâ (see: Sirrianâs last post here).
Yes, despite claims that everyone with a single troop on defense was doing it for personal gain, some people were doing it for variety. And yes, some people were doing it exclusively for personal gain, completely avoiding any kind of real game, a kind of path of least resistance thing that should really not have been a thing to begin with, and clearly some damage has already been done in this regard based on some of these arguments.
Seriously, everyone cheering that this is no longer a thing because you canât exploit anymore to get more rewards per hour - you can, at least once they unbork their matchmaking serving up teams at the wrong score that is negatively affecting basically everyone now. And everyone complaining that this is no longer a thing and you canât exploit to avoid the âmetaâ, you can, just use four troops - when everyone catches on in a week or two, that will become the new standard.
Meanwhile, Iâm going to continue to complain that this is a half measure that did more short term harm than long term good, especially since this has been an issue for months, both exploiting the personal gain side, and that people feel a need to do this be it for personal gain (which is tied to the reward scheme of the game overall, which is tied to how much you need to accumulate, in addition to the gold formula basically being broken at the top end that made this optimal for reward gains in the first place) or for âvarietyâ (something that should never have to be gamed in the first place). An actual solution would make the former both unnecessary and untenable (equal score bonus payouts at the top end need to be dramatically increased, with the payouts spread out over wider score range) and the latter a non-issue (full appropriate score spread in each trophy slot all the time, regardless of defense team). But as was said, actual fixes take time.
I hope this can be satisfactorily resolved in a reasonable amount of time, but I also know this is probably going to divert even more time away from crafting, as is any other issue raised (eg., with Guild Wars), which is just killing me because the game still feels incomplete without crafting.
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He literally used the phrase âare you for realâ in all caps. To try and remove the implication from that statement and paint him as innocent is disingenuous at best and you damn well know it.
It never ceases to amaze me when people throw around thinly-veiled, backhanded insults and then act outraged when they are given insults in response.
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He definitely came in rambling, i give you that, but between straightup calling someone a liar and questioning peoples intent is a big difference in my book, even if it may only be a difference in politeness.
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Actually, the 1-troop defense has been going on since before 2.0 shook up the PvP formula. Back in 1.x, it was primarily used to bait for revenges, as there was arguably even less at stake in defense losses (youâd get some of your non-Kingdom gold tribute stolen, which was insignificant even in those simpler times).
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