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Rope Dart + Reflect = Lethal Damage

Which is exactly what is supposed to happen according to the patch notes:

For allies… If no damage was done to my troop then my barrier shouldn’t of been removed. What caused the barrier to be removed? Damage…

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Oops, from your description I somehow had the impression that the Sacrificial Priest belonged to you. Interesting. Theory:

  • Sacrificial priest hammered the damage into your barrier, dealing zero damage, so zero damage was reflected.
  • Strip Armor bypasses barrier, always counting as 1000 damage dealt, which gets reflected quite lethally.

If you have barrier and reflect, 1st instance of damage removes barrier. No damage received, no damage reflected. You lose you barrier but still have reflect

Would it be so wrong to keep this as is? I think it would be interesting to have a new counterplay to these armor-stripping weapons. Many great game mechanics started as glitches…

The only question I guess would be if it would make delving too difficult.

What about players who haven’t completed The Warrens yet? They could face a hard time completing the delve with the random status effects being granted. Also imagine if Raid boss can also get a random status effect and has reflect. A lot of people would then lose their hero by stripping the armour.

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Like bless, you can counter reflect with a dispel hero class.

The only real problem is that the interaction may be unintuitive to players. I would take that in exchange for a new way to counter rope dart teams (assuming there aren’t any other unanticipated effects).

Move over Titan, it’s Sentinel’s time to shine!

This just happened to me in GW.

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The confusing thing here stems from there being several different ways “lethal damage” is implemented in the code. That’s part of why implementing the same thing multiple different ways is taught as a bad thing in early chapters of programming books. It means every time the devs make something like Reflect, they have to comb over every troop, figure out how many unique ways to do lethal damage there are, then get distracted and go to the pub for a few hours and ship the game. Nobody’s going to quit so it doesn’t matter.

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Is it really just a ‘counterplay’ when e.g. our Mythic Megavore gets completely disabled (or killed) in battle by a mere status effect?

Let’s not forget that, as time goes by and new troops are added, Reflect will be increasingly common, effectively making Destroy Armor troops/weapons a borderline useless gamble.
:thinking::sweat_smile::vulcan_salute:

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I see what is going on here, they are trying to nerf Mang-like weapon

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I can’t imagine that Reflect was designed as a counter to destroy armor, to devour, or to the lethal damage that Assassin/Archer can do.

  1. Destroying armor doesn’t even get rid of barriers so should not be considered damage.
  2. Devour receives the damage after the stat boost (thankfully), but I maintain that it shouldn’t be counted as damage at all: the game does damage just to get the enemy off the board, but that is an artifact of how the game used to be coded rather than an essential feature of the effect.
  3. If lethal damage can trigger Reflect, then Raid weeks just got a lot easier because you can simply wait for Zuul’Goth to suicide against Reflected troops and receive lethal damage in return.
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Whoa whoa whoa. Charm triggers Reflect, against the unit that cast the Charm spell. Not the charmed unit—that is, the one that actually did the damage. I understand why the devs wanted it to be this way (otherwise Charm does even more damage, and potentially removes even more barriers), but if you can tune the Reflect effect that finely, there is no excuse for it to trigger on any of the three conditions I just mentioned.

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I’d guess there’s something in the coding for Charm where it simply selects a troop with 1+ adjacent enemies and does Special damage (not reduced by traits) to those adjacent troops based on the Attack of the selected troop, similarly to Queen Ysabelle or Faunessa (although those probably count as Spell damage? Faunesa’s at least).

As such, it wouldn’t be the enemy troops actually doing the damage, despite how we visualise it, but simply (Special) damage from a troop’s spell, which then does get reflected.

Off-topic thoughts on Charm

I’ve always thought it would be interesting if Charm damage actually was affected by traits (and status effects like Enrage) – e.g. Charming an enemy Webspinner would be awesome; Gorgotha would block most of the damage unless the Troop was Enraged, etc.

I actually also think ‘Charm a random enemy’ should be able to select an enemy troop with no adjacents and have no effect as a result; currently it will always select from troops with adjacent units in a X–XX or XX–X situation (and thus always have an effect).

Off-topic speculation

Makes you wonder exactly how much Reflect was able to be tested before being released. Would be really awesome if interactions with existing effects were listed at release!

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I agree. Any action that removes any positive effect, is damage, or a debuff.
Barrier gets removed when you receive damage, even if it’s so-called 0 damage, it’s still damage.

I thought about this spell to be added in the game, but perhaps it should be removed.
It will make things just more complicated and less balanced.

To be honest, why to complain?
Judging of the ammount of complains on the forums/etc against rope dart teams, reflect seems the perfect solution to the issue, without going thru the nerfgrinder…

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Hierophant doomed, Luna, Divinia and complimentary troop of choice vs Rope Dart crew…

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But there are also Mang, Earth Fury, Trickster shot, Jasmine Pride, Fleshripper, Hope’s Cresent, and Megavore

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Ah yea, as we say in Sweden, you can’t really make an omelette without breaking some eggs…