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Rhetorical question to the devs.... Was 4.7 worth it?

It’s not too late to cut the cost of Epic Tasks in half or remove them completey.
Better to save your game than to save face.

I’m sure there’s other reasons causing the critical drop in players. But by far, I blame Epic Tasks for the castration of guilds that used to do legendary tasks and have had a lot of the fun removed by eliminating that gambling element.

To be fair though. I am biased. I don’t want Gems of War to fail and Epic Tasks still haven’t effected me personally. But I shouted for a month at least prior to 4.7 releasing that it would do way more harm than good. And that the player pool would severely drop.

The devs have all the evidence in regards to whether I’m right or wrong. I don’t expect any of it to be revealed to us.
Just curious how long a terrible, no good, bad idea will be stood behind out of pride and stubbornness (on 505’s end). Before the devs are allowed to try and salvage the game.

I know I can’t blame 4.7 as the reason for Covid 19.
That being said… Prior to 4.7…Covid 19 didn’t exist.
:man_shrugging:

Hopefully we have a cure for Epic Tasks and a cure (vaccine) for C19 soon.

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Were deeds available in LTs prior to ETs?
If yes, then I agree with your post. The gambling element over time allows serious grinders access to deeds that don’t appear anywhere else.
If not, then ETs seems like a way for mid-level players to get deeds (and writs) regularly and I’m cool with that. The chaos shards and ingots also helped while leveling up, but after a certain threshold they do become numbers only - just a lot faster than deeds.

Feedback from a mid-level, 7mo player

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No, but they could have been added, to it if the devs would care about revamping the legendary Tasks.

I’m not saying Epic Tasks are all bad, but they are among some of the changes implemented to push for monetization. Making Mythics and legendaries even more scarce can push players to use more gems/glory chasing full collections and induce some to purchase packs/offers.

I’m not against the monetization of the game, but I think they are pushing for the wrong ideas/measures.

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Curious, what do you base this on?

The forums seem less lively and I see some old timers packing it in (no more than usual though). But for lower / mid range levels, things look to be as active as always.

Not that I’d be against cutting the cost of epic tasks though, I hate those things.

Thoughts, experiences, and opinions that will most likely only end up in a pointless debate if voiced.

Not so much by you. But someone will bite. And though I’m usually up for a great debate most of the time. I currently don’t have the luxury of that kind of time at the moment.

ETs are bad news. On the plus side? Campaign gives stat boosts that exceed those of ETs and can swing the balance in non event delves at lower horde levels. Our guild ignores ETS until wars week at which time there is a colossal gold dump. Some of our guys deposit 10 million plus. The other 3 weeks we just stash gold once our reqs are done. High gold reqs are a bad idea because ETs are a bad idea.

I’m not sure I agree with the premise of net player loss - I’m not sure there is a way to independently corroborate this?

  • Are veteran players leaving? Likely yes, but this is normal for any game.
  • Are new players arriving? Likely yes, some stay long term, some don’t.
  • Do the arrivals - exits result in a net increase or decrease in player base? Does anyone outside the “devs” know? Unlikely.
  • Did the arrival of ETs meet the goal of that change? Curious on this.
  • Are the ETs cost:benefit in a good spot? Not really.
  • Does the ‘seeming’ increase in player exit make near-constant recruiting painful? No doubt.

Here are two interesting charts from Steam:


Besides lines…months and years. What are we supposed to see exactly from the data?

Someone has brought up before that the rate for steam player increases. While those on at least Google decreases. I would attribute that to more people playing from home.

Well, from this dataset, and of course there is no way to judge completeness (mobile vs desktop usage), over the long haul the trendline is positive. Most interesting part of the second graph is the spike in July that coincides with 5.0 release, then basically a drop back to normal levels right away.

Your data set is missing things like player numbers…what it actually means ect…
You’re just showing lines and dates.

This is from Samsung right now.
25% decrease between now and 4.7

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My charts are “concurrent players” - which is the typical steam usage stat.

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Jumping off your post, Razzagor, as it’s the best post to do so in the thread,

Incoming personal tea leave reading of the future,

The devs don’t want to revamp Legendary Tasks, ever. Personally, I believe that if they could, the devs would remove them from the game completely. But, they aren’t going anywhere, so the devs did from their perspective the next best thing they could… which was Epic Tasks.

Epic Tasks serve as a two-edged sword. On one hand, it provides a way for players to gain controlled amounts of limited resources (1 of each colored deed, epic ingots, etc.) each week. On the other hand, Epic Tasks serves as a hard block to keep players out of Legendary Tasks. I believe this is because the devs want players to be accustomed to gameplay without access to LTs.

So, while the devs will not completely remove LTs from the game because of the extreme outrage that would occur, they can instead functionally make the mode non-accessible and/or make LTs obsolete . Epic tacks generally succeed in the first part, rendering LTs inaccessable for ~95% of the player base. That 5% of the playerbase that can achieve them probably don’t have much to be gained from accessing LTs. Sure, it’s more gem and event keys, with the very small chance of a random mythic. But, those players likely are already pulling every new monthly mythic with relative ease already and are not really gaining much here in the long run. The second part is still a slow motion change, in progress. Over time, most meta resources are very likely not going to be obtained via LTs. Players can already see this with deeds and the mythic in the current Elite Pass. I strongly expect this trend to continue in 5.1 and beyond. As this trend continues, LTs will generally become more and more irrelevant to the meta of the game, which is very much likely intended by intentional design. To that extent, I personally expect LTs to NEVER be updated again and am planning for the future with this eventuality in mind.

Monetization can’t really exist if players are 100% self-sufficient from LTs. Why spend at all, if there’s nothing of value that can’t be obtained for free? At this point in the game’s lifespan, the devs are acutely aware of this issue and are slowly moving the game to a position where monetization of some kind will be encouraged (but fall just short of being P2W outright) to be at the meta in the future.

Players should start taking a hard look at the setup in the Daily Deal system. I’ll save the discussion and postulation for another post, but the groundwork is already laid now for the Daily Deal system to be a major monetization tool in the future. It’s just waiting for the new resources and things to be dropped into it. At that point, players might realize how huge the impact of locking the rightmost slot of the shop to VIP 6 or higher customers will be in the future regarding meta resource acquisition.

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Hourly tribute is probably next as end gamers are earning almost 20 gems an hour, and with the ease of mobile you can collect tribute a dozen times a day easily.

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“Epic Tasks serve as a two-edged sword. On one hand, it provides a way for players to gain controlled amounts of limited resources (1 of each colored deed, epic ingots, etc.) each week. On the other hand, Epic Tasks serves as a hard block to keep players out of Legendary Tasks. I believe this is because the devs want players to be accustomed to gameplay without access to LTs.”

My PoV without data to back it up is that having FOMO with additional stats would make more guilds try to grind additional gold to at least fill up all Epic tasks. Making LTs irrelavent could be something I can get behind but I would argue that Epic Tasks serve to be just another trendmill to climb, yet another one where you cannot set your own pace.

“At that point, players might realize how huge the impact of locking the rightmost slot of the shop to VIP 6 or higher customers will be in the future regarding meta resource acquisition.”

I’m not that convinced that it would actually drive up sales. Locking people out of making purchases. Probably just me at this point but I don’t see myself paying an extra $100 just for a chance of buying something with premium currency. Flash Offers on the other hand i can see being the constant tug that could be effective.

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That’s exactly what the Daily Deals are meant to address, IMO. I very much would not be surprised if that in the future, the devs make the primary method of a new meta resource’s acquisition be via Daily Deals.

I’m glad you brought this up, because I reached the same perspective on the VIP slot.

The issue, IMO, is that the bar to unlock the VIP Daily Deals is quite high, at VIP 6. And that alone is enough to turn away most players. I think to some degree, the devs were looking for a reason for the players who reached VIP 5 to unlock VIP chests to spend for one more VIP level. To that extent, an argument could be made about moving from VIP 5 to 6 to unlock the VIP Daily Deal slot because there is very significant value in that slot being unlocked, an optimistic perspective. Especially, if that slot will be a focal point for resource acquisition for those who have it unlocked in the future.

But, if a player is VIP 2 - 4, that gap can be perceived to be way too large to traverse, which more often than not leads to a giant “nope” on the VIP slot unlock. This generates the perspective of being locked out of the slot, which is the pessimistic point of view.

I’ve thought about this issue, and can’t think of a good solution to it. I don’t believe that the devs will reduce the cost to unlock the slot to only VIP 5 (because of the reason above), nor will they reduce the total spend required to reach VIP 6.

Anyone have a non-sarcastic idea on how to overcome the perspective gap on this?

Move either Daily Deals or VIP chests to Slot 4, then the other to 6 or 7, depending on how the moving parts are valued relative to one another.

Spoonful of sugar (one “easier” task) makes the medicine (the more expensive monetization the devs want us to buy) go down :man_shrugging:

How about actually making the things worth buying in slot 3? I haven’t bought anything in ages since it keeps offering junk I absolutely refuse to buy, like Expert Supply. 25% off on junk is still junk.

I buy all the deeds due to “book of deeds” fomo. :man_shrugging:

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If its like any other type of tin-foil hat conspiracy going on, book of deeds will be its own new currency to stall progress.

Possibly. But just in case. I’m buying the deeds.