R.I.P. Maw meta. The new meta is Manticore/Khorvash?

The pictures and memes came out because this thread became “too” serious. To the point that if it got anymore heated it’d probably be closed. Aside from that though I kinda agree that mana drain is annoying, but not so much so that it isn’t welcomed. I’m of the mind set that almost always, “buff other troops or bring in new ones, before nerfing anything.” We saw that with maw though, and the amount of troops they had to bring out to try and counter maw was amazing. lol Mana drain though I don’t think so.

Edit: Honestly I’m wondering if they made another “buff/balance” pass to the older troops how many of the new ones would still feel “op” to people.

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Calling it now: A new trait that prevents mana drain. (Which is fine by me as long as it doesn’t get tacked onto Impervious.)

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They should just go all the way and make impervious immune to taking any damage. :stuck_out_tongue:

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Someone suggested that Mana Drain immunity should be combined with Mana Burn into the Mana Shield trait , I think it’s an idea worth looking at.

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As long as it stays free of Impervious (which has Mana Shield baked in at present), it’s a good idea IMO. Mana Shield is relatively lackluster (but no moreso than Alert or Flying or Cunning I guess).

It was me:

To me it just makes sense that a shield protecting you from side effects of harmful mana manipulation would prevent you from losing mana as well.

Caution, spoiler about Leonis Empire’s quest ahead. (Just in case someone would check the thread and wouldn’t want a spoiler about a kingdom yet to be unlocked.)

Also it would make Amira a better choice to kill Khorvash on the kingdom’s quest.

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Ha @lyya I called that one ages ago… Tho probably before it was so endemically needed…

How about a legendary trait that prevents all mana drain to your team? Just put it on a useful but not overpowered legendary… So it becomes a counter strategy not a staple in every defence…

EVERY defense? I’m just over level 500 and I see Manti about 1 in 6 matches, maybe a little less. I still see Mab way more than anything else with BD and now Khorvash close behind. Manti wasn’t hard to get so it seems to me if it were REALLY OP it would be overwhelmingly prevalent at levels other than the very highest.

I know it’s not a popular opinion but I would like to suggest yet again that the “OP troops are causing a lack of variety” problem is endemic to the top 1%. Either the players are being pigeonholed by the economy or some other game mechanic or something but this lack of variety that is being reported is ONLY being reported by some of the highest-level players in the game.

Great ideas all the way around.

I like those dual trait ideas! With the Warded one, I would be tempted to have it protect against Deathmark and Skill Point Loss. That would cover Aspect of Famine. Aspect of Plague, Cursed and Supression. Would have it coded so that only the “Lose (X number) Skill points” traits would be covered by Warded. For example Aspect of Death would not be covered since it says ‘Steal 2 Life’.

I’m just not totally sure if it’s possible to code something like this without making it also immune to Entangled and Webbed. (But i’m not a programmer.) And speaking of each, an “Escape Artist” or “Unstoppable” trait preventing Entangled and Webbed.

New meta be goblins.

I’d probably be using Manticore but I don’t have enough Arcane Light stones to trait it. It doesn’t need many so I’m just waiting for them to drop. Doubt I’m the only person in that position.

Everyone I’ve seen has been fully-traited so that’s certainly possible.

Okay I didn’t want to start a new discussion since this is about the meta and I wanted to resume discussion about it now that it’s settled down a bit

I am honestly so frustrated by the new meta. I’m just curious how other people feel about it.

I was doing just fine until people started using the double manticore deep borer bone dragon teams.

When people were just using one manticore I didn’t think he was over powered. But that specific combination is brutal and extremely frustrating to me.

And the more I think about it the more I can’t understand how one troop can do so much when he isn’t even a legendary or mythic. My stance on this troop was different before I had to consistently go against this team. I’m becoming part of the problem and using it to hopefully help others experience it and perhaps lead to a solution. Or if it turns out that others aren’t frustrated by it and a fix isn’t needed, then I’ll just soak up the 50% win rate rewards.

I think it’s a bad choice to make an entangle immune (impervious in this case) troop that has a really strong self buff on top of being very cheap, mana draining, and being empowered. All of that together is a nightmare to go against.

After the first cast of his skill a mythic with full bonuses with have 40 attack (I believe). And you can’t entangle that. So, you build a gorgotha team. Obvious counter.

But then manticore has a stun, so if he chooses gorgotha then his trait goes right out the window. Most of the time you can bait him into going after another troop but there are times where it doesn’t work out.

Especially since manticore is empowered (and if two are used … ouch). And then if there are a lot of his colors on the board to where you can’t deny him, the two manticores can very easily get their mana back. And you just can’t keep up with them.

And while your messing around with the manticores, the deep borer can get filled very easily because he’s cheap. And that can fill up bone dragon. And then bone dragon pretty much guarantees that gorgotha is finished and often times your second troop dies, too. And then the whole game is pretty much over from there.

So to combat bone dragon I also include my own empowered mana drain. Particularly spirit fox (untargetable). But it almost rarely makes a difference from my own experience, because they just get their mana back right away.

I don’t know. I’ve tried so many different counters for this team, none of which work out, and I am just very frustrated with it.

If you have any opinions or some new counter I might not have thought about please share it. I will note that this post is mostly a rant. But I hope that solutions can be thought up to bring this troop more in line with others of his rarity.

I don’t think it’s fair for one troop to do so much.

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Completely agree with what you’ve said. I tried this team out on defense for a few days, and changed it. It feels too “slimy” to use. I used to fret going up against that team, but I’ve become more confident as of late. I use a valk and bat team. Neither are ever filled first 2 turns that manticore is going to fire off. So I just wait and don’t fill any troops for 2 turns. After that it’s a piece of cake. Seems too easy, but it’s about outsmarting them.

Since you know that Manticore is going to use his ability for 2 turns, he also doesn’t take any gems for 2 turns. Which usually sets the board up for me to fill Valk and 2 bats, pretty quickly.

Which is why I wouldn’t recommend using troops that are already filled at the start of the battle, unless of course they have better abilities than manticore. Or you are trying to get them to target the one that is filled. Which I’ve found is usually semi random.

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Double manti+DB+driller do not cause me any problems. Soft as ducks. And Im playing with Maw :grin:

I agree it’s an annoying team, with no explicit counter, but I rarely lose to it. As @HKdirewolf says, you just need to bait the Manticores away from your tank, and on occasion you’ll need to eat the BD spam.

Khopeshi might be helpful if you can get a cast off.

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It is not that manticore is doing too much, it is that there are two. The empowered trait is overlooked most of the time for being weak when in fact you can do a lot with it, manticore not exempt. This is the third meta in a row where there has been an empowered troop as a cog in the machine. The first was the maw meta where it had the empowered mercy to cause damage. Most people believed or in my experience it seemed like most people believed that maw was the problem but he needed support from 3 other troops to become a threat and the first support to cast was always mercy. Then we have the khorvash meta which has the empowered troop manticore, and now the double manticore meta. The units are not the problem, it is the empower trait. It is easy to underestimate such a trait but when used properly, you can easily win games without taking mana from the board.

Well I still believe that maw was the problem. Mercy does not do so much. she is hardly comparable to Manticore. By comparison she is exceptionally balanced. The board does not always set up for a perfect cast for her. All she does is convert. That is okay to be empowered in my opinion.

Not something that stuns, drains mana, and is empowered with a small cost (9)!

Since the Maw nerf Mercy has been fine and rarely complained about. I do think Maw was the problem there.

But anyways I haven’t tried an attack team against this meta. It never occurred to me that it’d be effective
What is a specific attack team that you have found success with?

I have never liked skull teams but if it makes this comp easy to go against I’ll definitely use it.

I’ve tried the bat team with no success. Perhaps I am just really unlucky with my boards. Makes sense since I usually use a gorgotha explode team to compensate. I lose against this team almost every time.

I’m okay with longer battles. But when something feels so op and annoying to go against It makes me not want to PVP lol