Even with the Kingdoms in PvP having limitations there still isn’t more diversity in PvP at all which when going into certain kingdoms which was so far i know the goal to improve PvP. Cycle teams especially are still a big problem.
The best way to deal with this problem i think would be having a banlist. Where certain troops, weapons and maybe even classes are not allowed to be used anywhere in PvP.
Having a banlist that gets updated from time to time would make PvP more enjoyable. At the same time this also means that Journy troops can be reverted back to what they were and just permantly be on the banlist for PvP. There will be no need for tweaking overpowered troops/weapons anymore either whether they are past or future ones. As in PvE people can just have fun, making things more accesible for newer players ontop of that, while in PvP those overpowered troops/weapons can just be on the banlist. Giving a more healthy way to play the game both in PvE, PvP and no extra work to balance things either anymore. So would be a good thing on many levels. For players and the developers.
Please no. Check the ongoing PvP discussion. There is nothing wrong with any one troop or weapon. The problem with the current coding is that it results in the same opponent teams being offered at every level in perpetuity. All we need is to have variety reintroduced. Clearly using players current offense team as defense is not working and we are seeing the impacts of such coding playing out in real time.
We need to revert to intentional defend teams or find some way to ensure that there is a variety of battles with a variety of troops/weapons to choose from.
Seeing Wand of Stars on every high level team that charges all high cost troops with ease or troops like Queen Beetrix able to cycle on her own when getting unlucky drops yourself are not fun at all. Easy cycle teams aren’t a healthy thing for any competitive game. Next to that like briefly mentioned is that PvE is suffering from teams in PvP which is why the journey troops got nerfed. A banlist would solve that issue as well giving the developers more time to work on other things then tweaking troops to be PvP viable.
Therefore best and easiest solution to implement would be a banlist for the overpowered and easy cycle troops.
I definitely understand where you’re coming from. WoS, Stellarix, Beetrix, etc are incredibly annoying to fight especially when paired with Elementalist. Conversely, they’re also the best troops for the attacking player to use.
I disagree, however, with a ban list. I don’t mean offense to the devs here - GoW does not have the same focus and regulation as, say, a Pokemon tournament. Pokemon has fewer “troops” than GoW and far, FAR more popularity alongside stricter regulations in PvP. Granted, each Pokemon is considerably more complex than a GoW troop.
We have not seen consistent/frequent global balancing in GoW for underpowered/overpowered troops. Sure, it happens here and there, but not regularly. Elementalist, a class that makes the vast majority of other classes irrelevant, has not been changed since release. Older troops have not been updated to account for power creep. Heck, even warbands are hardly ever changed.
Point being, we have not seen a lot of targeted, successful, well-received decisions when it comes to balancing. I don’t think people want IP2 deciding which troops are “too strong” and which ones aren’t. You see the overwhelming negative feedback that can happen from comparatively minor changes - imagine what happens when players hear they can’t use their hard-earned Stellarix in PvP anymore.
I’m not saying things shouldn’t be balanced. I would LOVE to see Elementalist nerfed and/or a lot of other classes buffed. I would love to see less used troops get some love. Maybe even a limit to the number of extra turns players can get in one “round.” But having devs pick and choose what troops are too good for us to use? I don’t think that’s the solution.
Having a limit on extra turns would solve the problem to some extend. There should also be a limit on troops summoned to prevent that from becoming a big problem. As now you can summon what seems to be unlimited troops.
Saying people would be “mad” about not being able to use a certain troop in PvP if there would be a banlist isn’t really a good argument though. As we get limited options in multiple kingdoms now and don’t see people really mad about that. Next to that the troops can still be freely used in PvE.
A banlist takes less time then balancing troops, weapons and classes. It can be backed up by data and player feedback.
There could also be an unrestricted kingdom that doesn’t follow the banlist. As most issues with the unoriginal easy cycle teams weirdly enough happen outside of the Central Kingdom. Main culprits being the Elementalist class and Wand of Stars. Not allowing double troops would also help to some extend.
So a limit on Elementalist would definitly help for kingdoms but nerfing would again hurt PvE as well while PvP shouldn’t have such an impact as the player count is alot lower compared to the PvE side of the game. Therefore still think a banlist would be better then trying to balance everything. As it’s much more complicated and time consuming to do so.
And Stellarix: which can whack the entire opposing team in two casts, but because it has spell resistance cannot reciprocally be killed by two casts of most opposing troops. It’s just massively overpowered in PvP.
(That said, I suspect we’ll soon see an anti-Stella meta taking shape; and once that happens the defense teams will tend towards a 50/50 mix of Stella/anti-Stella.)
Kingdom/class restrictions might end up being the most playable pvp, due to these bans already implicitly being in place. Explicit bans seems counterproductive financially, especially if people want to spend to get those cards.
A ban on the Elementalist class for Kingdoms that aren’t Central Spire or Nexus would work together with the already in place limits. Adding a same troop limit would also be good to see ontop of that. So that certain cycles or creation of gems cannot happen. Giving more room for creativity.
I think this is where we disagree, primarily. Developer time is needed in other areas much more than trying to create a reasonable ban list for thousands of troops and weapons including every future release. While working with the community to create a functional and balanced list is a neat idea, we don’t see a lot of that hands-on community involvement in this game.
Also worth considering that not all kingdoms have many decent troops to begin with, let alone for new players who don’t have them all. Limiting their pool even further is not ideal.
There are plenty of options for newer players. As like you mentioned even pokémon has fewer “troops” yet are doing fine with stricter rules.
The problem troops, weapons and class are not easily accessible either for new players. So putting a ban on those troops in PvP would make PvP more open to newer players then leaving them in. It would also be a ban list only for (parts in) PvP so PvE would still be completly fine without any restrictions and hust having fun.
Mad idea, but what about say Construct region and you can choose Beasts?
Dragon region, you can use Divines. I dunno but maybe the opposing type or similar, rather than it’s goblins vs goblins or elementals vs each other.
Colour restriction blue - you can choose your colour?
At least that stops the same team vs exact same team.
Sure we have 6 coloured troops and weapons, but for example you could go with purple vs say red and counter with webs. Of course there’s wand but you can go with Inari as well.
Brown you can go with Zuul teams by going say red.
And give the player the choice - ‘choose a colour’ you choose red vs Geheron brown. Maybe there’s a bonus colour of the day or troop type that day for more VPs. Blood frenzy is poorly conceived as is.
The only two classes that are a problem are Elementalist which newer players don’t get acces to until quite far in the game. The other is maybe Orbweaver. Those are the only 2 classes that to some extend can be annoying to deal with. So the only case can really be made for Orbweaver then as it’s a fairly early class that can in situations especially for newer players be annoying.
So it is still fine to leave alone but Elementalist in its current state is just to broken to be used in PvP.
If you web Stella, I’ll retreat if I’m using it, so spider throne. Sometimes even because elementalist, submerge and barrier by talents, or because the opponent Stella is attacking.
Barely played on phone but cannot record. Going to Nexus is a big chore. On the Playstation am a bit further but nowhere near the end of the kingdoms. Maybe done 5 kingdoms? On the Switch is only account where i’m 1000+.
So do know how hard it is for newer players with unlocking things which is why Elementalist, Wand of Stars and the final cosmic dragon are pretty much only ones that really should be banned to make things accesible for newer players if a banlist would be done.
Next to that a no same troop things wouldn’t be bad either. As there are certain troops that are just annoying, not hard, to go go up against. No one likes to lose when it comes down to luck or sitting through a cycle for several minutes just to lose.
There are only a few troops that are fairly easy accesible like Queen Beetrix that because of luck and cycle which makes it possible to sweep on its own that deserve to be on a banlist.
Before it was queen bee that would appear a lot in pvp, now is this, there will be always something, and if really on the banning, there’s arena but it’s not popular.
What you are suggesting is fixing the wrong problem. Newer/lower level players should have options for PVP that are not insanely difficult for them to beat. That is the problem.
Do you think someone who has not logged a lot of hours playing should be considered to have an equal chance in PVP against someone who has been playing this game forever and has made a huge time investment in upgrading their acoount? That is simply not realistic and not the way this game is designed. Although people like to talk about whales buying their way to the top, I don’t really think that is possible. It just takes hours and hours of play time to progress in the game. I’m mid-late game and I don’t expect to beat those who are many levels above me, at least not regularly
Newer/less experienced players also struggle with Underspire, e12 and high level delves. Should we find ways to make all of that easier as well? Or should players grow into it as their experience level increases?
