Oh, that explains everything. Alright then: devs, I only do 3 trophy matches, run the numbers again!
Yes its a mess and the devs refuse to engage with the player base on this and many other fundamental issues. There was a recentish post from one dev saying or reiterating that he/she abstained because of death threats. Of course that’s abhorrent and alarming but continued ‘secret squirrel’ ninja nerfs and absence from discourse will only exacerbate the issue and alienate themselves further. Maybe they are short staffed but as things stand they give the impression that they don’t give a monkeys about player satisfaction.
Thanks, that’s a very good point. It’s this line:
Updated the Team Power algorithm
My thought process back when I originally read it was that it looks innocent enough. Team power doesn’t reflect team difficulty in any way, it’s just used to pick appropriate opponents (and rewards), an easy, a normal and a difficult one. If power scores change for all players, so what, I’ll still get those three types of battles. I might encounter some other players, I’ll probably not notice because I don’t pay attention to names.
Looking at this again a little closer, the opponents seem to get picked based on an invisible reference score. And this reference score seems to be set comparatively lower than before. Where I would get an easy, normal and difficult battle, I’m now often getting a very easy, easy and normal battle, even though a difficult battle would technically be available. On a wild guess, the reference score is missing 500 points, due to ignoring some hero based factor that seems to have been added to algorithm. If those points were added, matchmaking would likely return closer to the old behavior.
So, yes, possibly a bug rather than a ninja change.
@Saltypatra Would it make sense to open a bug report for this? My previous ones were neither replied to nor added to the known issues list, so I’m having some doubts they get looked at any longer. I’d rather not waste my time for this if the bug reports section is now treated as an area where the community can discuss bugs they encounter among themselves.
Just to keep this near the top of the forums, here’s another data point.
This week, to reach 1923 points (tier 1), my record was 38-1 on offense, and 3-9 on defense. Take away the one loss for ten points, and I needed 38 matches to earn 1333 points. This is an average of 35 points. Of the 18 offense victories I can see in my battle log, 8 of them were for the minimum possible 3-trophy points, 31.
The current PVP leaders are winning 75% of their matches, and still averaging nearly 70 points per victory. One is almost my level (so has the same player-based stats), and has a nearly complete collection of troops (so has access to virtually the same array of teams I do). That player is still earning nearly double the points per PVP match I did.
Because you’re in a guild that completes all the tasks. That player is not.
Those minor stat differences SHOULD NOT effect the game to that degree. But what do I (we) do when the creator of the game doesn’t see how little of a difference that makes in present day PvP? He gets why we’re mad about it, and agrees it needs to change. But meanwhile it was allowed because the devs think end Gamers in end game guilds are OP. Hence the nerf.
Iirc, from what Sirrian said, the ‘nerf’ (quoting because I think it’s a broad term to describe the situation) was an unintended result of this part of the 4.3 Patch Notes:
This is as opposed to:
Although you’d be right in the sense that that’s what’s been communicated to us prior :
I think I agree with the rest, though.
You skipped the part where Sirrian said something about 20% more powerful on the same day you’re quoting him from.
I’m not sure that the extra stats from tasks is the highest contributing factor. I suspect the passive guild statue bonus of up to +200 to each mana mastery might skew the score much more significantly, while contributing very little to the surge chance due to diminishing returns.
I think AWRyan looked at the numbers once on matches before/after a guild finished all tasks. I don’t remember exactly what the methodology was, but I remember coming away convinced that it really was task completion (and specifically the stat boosts) that was responsible for the difference in payouts.
Of course, it still takes me a relatively long time to get to rank 1 even when I start that in the first couple hours of the week when my guild has completed very few tasks. So I don’t see that as the reason either.
I doubt that, given we’ve been PvP nerfed (less than 60 points for 3 trophy) for 2 years now (Top 100 plus LT is a bad combo if you like RpVp). Our highest guild statue is 191 as of right now.
Back then we weren’t even able to get the guild wars 50% points each day. That didn’t change until we got to bracket 1 where it’s automatic. That kicks in at what 100 statues?
So guild bonuses last for 7 days and they stack… I ask that you see if you have active bonuses before doubting my tested fact.
Well, you do get 8 + 8 + 3 + 2 = 21 extra stat points, which has an effect on scores. But you also get 6 * 191 = 1146 extra mastery points. Last time I checked (which was quite a while ago), team score seemed to go up roughly every other mastery point. If that’s still the case, switching to a guild with much lower statue levels should have at least as much impact as avoiding to complete all task.
Summons a @Mithran to give the data that my eyes see but can’t explain to others…(I saw him typing so not a true summon. )
Totally forgot about that.
All that being said, it could still be … anything. The fact they haven’t told us what it is means we don’t know. We have educated guesswork.
The devs say it’s all about guild statues. I know for a fact it’s not. I explain why in great detail on the the thread in the link.
2 things determine PvP points… Your personal power based on Kingdom stars and the guilds bonus stats from tasks complete. It’s the only consistent formula in this game, yet “no one knows” how it works. Lol
That’s not correct, there’s a lot more in there, like level, ascension tier and traits unlocked of the troops used, mastery bonuses and such. Some are more apparent, others are trickier to observe.
Most wouldn’t consider it worth the effort to figure out all details, a somewhat close approximation usually suffices. If you feel like doing some numbers, take note of your team power now, then compare it to your team power once your guild statues have all gained a level.
Cool, so I make 35 points now and will make 35 points then.
I’m not talking about team scores… purely PvP scores.
I’m not going to get more points from a battle if I use untraited level 15 troops now am I?
So though I realize that factors into team scores… It doesn’t matter at all for possible PvP points.
The best answer I can give you is “maybe”, which may involve reading “use in battle” in a somewhat broader sense. There’s part of the score handling that appears odd, I haven’t gotten around to poking it extensively enough though.
Sometimes the simplest answer is the right answer. 2 factors for what you are given for PvP points.
Now, I agree that on defense team score matters. But when facing it, some folks will get 70 points, some will get 35.
@MatrimCauthon I’m guessing you’re a higher level than me or around my level. Can you please SS what you see normally for 3 trophy PvP and post it here?