Option to remove weapon upgrades


#21

Yeah, like @Slypenslyde said: something needs to be done, I’m just not 100% sure what that solution should be.

As I’ve said before an upgrade should feel like an UP-grade. Instead, I find myself going: “I can only upgrade to [insert relevant number here], otherwise I’ll ruin the weapon.”

I shouldn’t feel that way about a supposed “upgrade”. I should be excited that I can up my weapon, not afraid of accidentally upgrading it too far and making it worse. That’s just poor game design. As I said an UP-grade should feel like just that, an improvement.

Also, because weapons are tied to Kingdom Power, this presents another issue, currently. Eventually, you might find yourself “upgrading” weapons you don’t want to, just to get another Star for Kingdom Power. I mean, hooray, you got that extra star/reward, but it came at what cost?

In my opinion, it would take a HUGE reward, for me to, essentially, ruin weapons like my Dawnbringer and Divine Protector. And, even then, I would still be extremely hesitant to do so.


Also, on a related note, why are some of these weapon upgrades so stupidly attached to weapons that don’t benefit from them? For example, one of Mang’s “upgrades” is “Create a Red Gem”? Why on Earth would An Armor Destroying Weapon need to create a Red Gem? That would be way more useful on something like Divine Protector. At least, in theory.


#22

Because this game’s real name is Red Gems of War. Haven’t you noticed that recently we had three eapons capable os spawning gems? The Ragereaver, Flamifier and now this Sky Hero.
Good thing we don’t have other five colored gems to use in this game…


#23

I’ve noticed a few tickets about this so just to be clear, I am sorry, but support isn’t able to downgrade/deactivate/remove any of your weapon affixes for you.

The team does not currently have any plans to add a feature that allows you to remove affixes.

We’d be happy to hear any suggestions or feedback on specific affixes (and their Weapons) that you have an issue with.


#24

The general idea goes that we don’t like the random generation/removal of gems that can change the board against us. Maybe these upgrades would be ok in weapons that actually generate/remove gems, but not on Dawnbringer, for example, that has a perfectly clear function.

I noticed that many of these upgrades are based on the weapon type and that’s where the mistaken happened… Independent affixes/upgrades would be better to solve all our problems. This will certainly take a while to address, but it would certainly present better results and even make it easier to change/rework weapons in the future.


#25

Short simple feedback.

Stop using psudeo-rng to assign Perks to Weapons (and Hero Classes). It creates undesirable effects. Weapons (or Hero Classes) Dont need to be OP, just make some sense and not be harmful to the player after spending 55 Mythic Ingots.

TL;DR Start threating them similar to troops and actually think about them.


#26

Just don’t use Wild Plains troops to design any weapon upgrade… :scream:


#27

There are plenty of them in this thread already.
Generally it is really simple, doesn’t require new upgrade types just smarter allocations of the already existing ones:
-Put create gem upgrades on create gem weapons only. Most gem create weapons(10 or less gems) are weak/less consistent compared to good create gem troops, an extra gem of the appropriate colour would be a godsend for those weapons’ consistency.
-Put explode gem upgrades on gem explode or extra-turn weapons only.
-Replace gem explode/create upgrades on all other weapons with give 1 mana to all allies upgrades instead.


#28

I’d be okay with this. If necessary, I’ll make feedback/suggestion threads on each of the ‘offending’ (:stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:) upgrades, and the weapons they’re on, with polls.

EDIT: Also thanks @Cyrup for letting us know the current stance on the issue and how we can best help with/approach it.


#29

I haven’t thought about it much deeper than “creator” weapons like Divine Protector.

It creates Red and Yellow gems. The utility to a player is if it creates enough red and yellow gems, it is very likely to generate a cluster of matches that result in a free turn.

Before the match happens, it explodes a random yellow gem. There’s at least a 50/50 chance this disrupts one of the clusters it created, which means you lose your free turn.

From many games played with and without the affix, I feel like this is a net negative effect. I feel safe saying without any data I get at least 25% fewer free turns out of it. My fully-upgraded Divine Protector is worse than it was before. Now it’s even worse since explosions were nerfed: I might not even get a single mana out of the dang explosion.

So I would very much stand behind, “Weapons that create gems should not also explode gems”.


#30

@Cyrup Reviving this topic, as I just got screwed over again at a critical moment with this “create a gem” affix.

Tower of Doom, boss battle Floor 32: Only 2 troops standing on the opponent’s side, one of them about to be a goner, and I still have all my troops. I cast Doomed Blade when I see a 4-5 match, and one of the gems in this 4-5 match turns into blue, leaving the full Doom playfield to the opponent. Needless to say, I only had one troop left standing after the opponent had a feast and made me lose the battle.

Is this really the behaviour you guys (dev) intended for a Guild event with a leaderboard (since it is a weapon especially intended for this event)? An event where people tend to invest money/gems into due to the competitive nature of this event and the possibility to help foresee the entire guild with gems and doom troops based on their standing in the leaderboard?

I know it is useless to open a ticket for this and ask to restore my sigil for a battle that should’ve been an easy win, so instead I’m reviving this topic once again to ask if you could please not stop now after you’ve done a few adjustments to the weapon affixes, but have a closer look at the weapon upgrade system as a whole. Especially the create gem affixes on weapons that transform gems. You’ve done it right on the Doomed Crossbow, but older weapons are still suffering.


#31

This came up in the beta-tester subforum. It is working correctly as coded, but with unintended consequences. All of these “add a gem” and “explode a gem” affixes were supposed to refund a few mana on each cast. But (everything from here is personal opinion, rather than anything said by a dev) the devs don’t play the game at an end-game level, because they spend all day working on it and likely don’t want to devote their leisure hours as well. So they don’t consider things the way an end-game player would, such as the paramount importance of not turning over the turn to the AI when stats are so unbalanced.

Thanks to much player moaning, the devs are aware now that this is a problem; they changed several affixes with the most recent update to address some of the most grievous offenders. With 4.2.5 happening soonTM, one hopes they have found ways to achieve the original goal (give a few points of mana) without making the weapons a terrible liability in high-stakes matches.


#32

I agree in totality and want to diverge a teeny bit:

Yes, the doomed weapons are given by the event. That doesn’t mean they are “designed for” the event. There are a lot of things going against them and you are hurting yourself, as a player, if you buy into this.

When building a single-color team, multicolor troops and weapons become much more important. If the best strategy for a color-limited team was “stick to single-color troops” then GW would be very different. Instead, we use multicolored troops to smooth out our chances when the board doesn’t give us those colors. This is especially valuable when we end up facing generators or converters that cut off our access to that important color. Doomed weapons are a liability and can get stranded. This is exacerbated if the color presents no particularly good generators. (Yes, I know you can use an off-color weapon, but I think some people try to be thematic, which is also a mistake.)

Second: they don’t scale without help. There’s a theoretical maximum damage you’ll do with the doomskull hit. There will come a point where that’s not enough to kill a single troop. Then you face a new, randomized board that’s just as likely to force you into a 3-match and handing over cascades as not. So if your color doesn’t have reliable attack boosters, these weapons will peter out at the upper levels.

Third: scaling weapons exist that address both of the above facts. Earth’s Fury, for example, will boost your entire team’s attack in a way that gets stronger as the enemies do. And it is a Red/Black weapon, so it’s multi-colored! It doesn’t require you to be all-in on one color, which means more generators can feed it. It doesn’t have a cap to its effectiveness like the doomed weapons. All of the usual suspects can be objectively better: Yasmine’s Pride, Mang, Trickster’s Shot, Earth’s Fury.

That doesn’t mean the Doomed blades are terrible weapons for the event. But don’t lock yourself into one “because you are supposed to use it”. The devs let you use any weapon for a reason. If you’re having problems, don’t handicap yourself by excluding the things that work consistently in other events!


#33

Doomed Crossbow (18 Red)

Deal [Magic + 3] damage to all Enemies, +1 per Tempering level. Transform Blue Gems to Doomskulls, if the Enemy has a Doom, create 5 more. Gain 3 Mana for each Red Enemy. [3x]

Yes, they are designed for the event. They are the only things in the game that directly benefits being used against dooms. designed =/= best

Red is filled with many generators. The guy above is using Doomed Blade, which isn’t the one from this event, but the mono blue colored one. The red/blue color pairing isn’t the greatest, so it definitely possible to use Doomed Blade without risking color block. Since he made it to Floor 32, he doesn’t need your help in teambuilding as difficulty caps out at 25.

I don’t know what his team is, but he should have been fine if the weapon affix didn’t mess him up.

P.S. Multiple Doomskull alignments hit very hard, much more than some silly magic. When entangle does nothing to protect a board full of doomskulls, 40-50 attack is more than enough to take down 400-500 hp targets with decent setups.


#34

As TheIdleOne already pointed out, I indeed know I don’t have to use the weapons, and this Tower of Doom is in fact the first time I use them (and not even the Crossbow, but the Doomed Blade). It just works well in the team I created. When done right, the multiple matches and +5 doom cascades really add up even to the most skull-resistant troops. I mostly mentioned the event-specific part since the game itself mentions it was designed for the event and the description indeed shows this. And yet the upgrade does something that, especially when facing opponents with 200+ attack, will inevitably lead to your doom (pun intended).

Unfortunately, I joined this game too late to have access to the majority of scaling weapons (other than Mang of course). Nevertheless, despite the risk, my team has been doing an excellent job. Not perfect, but I’ve lost only a handful of matches up until Floor 33, which isn’t too bad for such a dangerous setup :wink: And that includes the one for which I revived this topic.

Thanks anyway for trying to help!


#35

I’ll say it again. We don’t need the option to remove upgrades, because it shouldn’t be necessary. We should have upgrades that are beneficial.

It all goes back to devs not knowing their own game well enough.


#36

You are disagreeing with some minor points I made but not the overarching intent, which was “doomed weapons aren’t automatically the best just because they seem to fit the event”.

So I agree with all the analysis: in specific scenarios one can argue the “costs” of a doomed weapon are paid for by the “benefits”. I wanted to make sure anyone who wasn’t picking it through that kind of process got a nudge to do so!

On-topic: I’m sad that when we clearly stated to the devs that any kind of “create, destroy, explode” affix could be a negative, they latched on to “explode”, fixed ONLY that, then considered it done. That was really lazy and I do wish they’d spend more time conversing with players and perhaps asking if a particular fix is the right one first instead of “release it and call it done”.


#37

You will disagree with yourself just to keep an argument going.


#38

I will clarify my points if I think someone states something similar that I still agree with.

You, on the other hand, will enter a thread and make a one-sentence callout post without contributing anything to the topic.

Which one do you think is called “spam” vs. “discussion”?