Lycanthropy temporarily removed from essence of evilfrom

[kamosloki]

Thanks for the fix and +1 to the idea of keeping this permanent!

[Snooj]

[Dust_Angel]

Others have already mentioned it and I agree - Lycanthropy should be removed from EoE altogether, as well as from other troops (Magnus, Luna, Rattigar, Dragonette) that inflict random negative status effects.

In its current form it’s not that easy to put Lycanthropy in “negative effects” basket…let it be a mechanic of its own kind and associate it with troops/weapons designed specifically with Lycanthropy in mind, no need to attach it to anything that already exists.

[awryan]

I won’t be the first to mention this. And I won’t be the last.
Lycanthropy doesn’t qualify as a negative status effect because none of the other negative status effects have the ability to nullify each other.

Lycanthropy is the Y, Tomatoe, and the 2020 of statuses.

It needs its own designation or simply no designation at all. As in. If you want that troops to cast Lycanthropy…add it to their cast and do to the necessary balance changes.

[NerdieBirdie]

@Whiskeyjack

@sls

Any compensation for green day Guild Wars?

Or for all the crashes during the weekend faction event?

No and no. But hey, sometimes the devs surprise me, like with this lovely fix. Glad to hear Lycanthropy is being redone as well!

[Sytro]

@Saltypatra

Due to the issues encountered with Lycanthropy in conjunction with essence of evil we have temporarily removed the chance for lycanthropy to trigger when using essence of evil.

We are working on an overall fix for lycanthropy but it will require a client update to come into effect. We thought this was the best option for now, and when the lycanthropy fix is released essence of evil will be reverted back.

Salty, could fix include also hardcoding that: Stun and Curse are the LAST two debuffs applied by EoE.
Having Curse as last debuff is essential in case of troops having Fortitude/Impervious traits, Curse basicaly disables these.
Having Stun second to last is essential to any troop having any immunity.
That should keep Essence of Evil a reasonable weapon, not over-powered.

[WhoDat]

@Saltypatra Please make it permanent instead of temporary. No one needs Lycanthropy at all.
Thanks for the news that made us a little happier at least knowing no more of these freezes , crashes and losses.
You guys should about compensation

[Wow]

I was ready to forget this weapon until this…please don’t update the weapon anymore. The only update we need for the weapon is to be able to remove some updates to it.

[Mithran]

+1 for this should be a permanent change, also these:

@Dust_Angel

Others have already mentioned it and I agree - Lycanthropy should be removed from EoE altogether, as well as from other troops (Magnus, Luna, Rattigar, Dragonette) that inflict random negative status effects.

@awryan

It needs its own designation or simply no designation at all. As in. If you want that troops to cast Lycanthropy…add it to their cast and do to the necessary balance changes.

Unless there is somehow an implementation of Lycanthropy where the transformed troop retains all of its status effects inflicted beforehand (which seems highly unlikely, considering this is part of the point of transforming in every way it has existed prior), Lycanthropy has no place being bundled with “random” OR “all” status effects, be they negative OR positive, because it actively works against the very point of inflicting said effects.

@mitamata

Something was just pointed out to me on Discord. EoE now applies status effects in a different order. First curse, then stun, then the rest. Which is big buff to EoE, it can now inflict all the statuses on an impervious troop while it previously just cursed it.

@Saltypatra Is this temporary or permanent? Also, this is a pretty big deal imo, the kind of thing we love to hear about instead of discovering it ourselves

Wait, really? If so, I’m actually hoping this was a mistake. The last time (bleed I believe) new status effects were added, they initially tacked them on after Curse, and Curse was intentionally moved to the last thing inflicted afterward as a bugfix to keep this design consistency. Part of the counters to EoE was that it needed a cast to curse an Impervious which could still be cleansed by an outside source if the turn dropped (including by a medal since they aren’t stunned yet), then needing another full cast to lock them out fully. This then counter-balanced by the critical caveat and core mechanic that turn based (not medal) auto-cleanse does not ever trigger on the turn any status was inflicted on that particular target, so any target you lock down with EoE that doesn’t have another cleanse source on the team will remain locked down for at least the next turn.

I’d hate to end up with, when this is considered “resolved”, an even more potent initial cast EoE that just ignores the previous soft counter that we had but will still intermittently randomly fail to do its job and blow up in your face because Lycanthopy. Seems like the worst of both worlds.

[awryan]

If Lycanthropy is added back to Essence of Evil then it was and is a nerf to the weapon.
Having Essence of Evil curse first is a buff to the weapon.

So no, bad dev, keeping curse first, and adding Lycanthropy back would not be “a balancing out” of the weapon.

Clearly taking Lycanthropy out of Weapons isn’t that much of an issue. So a great compromise would be to take it out of all Random status effect weapons.
(I understand you did EoE because that was the biggest out cry leading to the most game breaking bugs. But it’s not the only weapon capable of casting it.)
And if you want to keep it in the troops then it’s whatever.

But keep in mind. You managed to make Delve runs EVEN MORE DIFFICULT. Due to one of the most difficult Factions, Dark Pits, having a faction troop that can cast Lycanthropy.
Sure it’s possible that the AI can transform a worthless Faction troop into a decent beast troop. Much more likely a level 500 AI troop almost dead, will transform and be fully healed into a level 500 Mythic beast troop though.

So the community has managed to make a pretty overwhelming cons list when it comes to Lycanthropy’s existence as a whole.

What exactly are the pros?

[Supremesis]

Can we go a moment without GW’s referencing thing’s. Ergh…

[Tresk]

Hugs to the team for the quick bandaid. It needs a deeper look, but this case was the big one and kudos for acting on it rather quickly. Seriously. This doesn’t solve the problem across the board but it hits the big issue while it gets figured out. Feels like good faith to me! Bravo!

[Saltypatra]

The change to EoE was intended, as we felt it improved the weapon. We will be keeping the order that the weapon now applies status effects, however, when Lycanthropy is fixed it will be added back to EoE.

You win some, you lose some!

[Dust_Angel]

Thank you for the info,
nevertheles, I can’t say I agree.

Essence was already a very powerful weapon and applying curse first makes it easily overpowereed.

Edit.
For ordinary PvP context, at least, having Lycanthropy on Essence hardly matters - the game almost always is over before it triggers (well, for the team I use), but it’s the general principle concerning this new status effect, as discussed above and before, that makes this situation feel iffy and disagreeable.

[awryan]

@Saltypatra

The change to EoE was intended, as we felt it improved the weapon. We will be keeping the order that the weapon now applies status effects, however, when Lycanthropy is fixed it will be added back to EoE.

You win some, you lose some!

Lol… So basically I called it then.

@awryan

If Lycanthropy is added back to Essence of Evil then it was and is a nerf to the weapon.
Having Essence of Evil curse first is a buff to the weapon.

So no, bad dev, keeping curse first, and adding Lycanthropy back would not be “a balancing out” of the weapon.

So the Hero classes that were immune to Lycanthropy and somewhat protected from Essence. (You know balanced.)
Just have a useless 100 Talent (Fortitude) now.

Why does your guy’s screw up cost the players even more protection from a mechanic that everyone that actually plays the game agrees ruins your game in it’s current implementation?

Y’all should help protect us from StockenWolf™. Not make a big announcement about removing Lycanthropy temporarily. Then make no mention of changing how Essence of Evil will work while you’re at it. (In the middle of guild wars week.)
But once folks notice say yep… That’s the cost of the temporary removal.

Unless I’m completely misreading your comment since “it” can be misconstrued.

I read it as though Curse will be applied first so Impervious troops will have all negative status effects from one cast of Essence of Evil. Even when you add Lycanthropy back to Essence of Evil.

[Neight]

At least Salty agrees, Lycanthropy is bad.

@Saltypatra

You win some, you lose some!

[Maxx]

@Saltypatra

you lose some!

Why should players be losing? games are meant to be fun and shouldn’t you want to make the game as fun as possible for the majority of the player base. These forums have been very negative for a long time you really should be doing whatever it takes to make your players happy if it doesn’t negatively affect the game or your profits.

[Jonathan]

@awryan

Not make a big announcement about removing Lycanthropy temporarily. Then make no mention of changing how Essence of Evil will work while you’re at it.

Yeah, agreed that this feels kind of weird. I mean, acting and communicating about the temporary fix was a yay/good thing , but then as you’ve said, the permanent change to the order in which EoE applies status effects got no mention. It’s good to now have the clarification, but still…

[Dust_Angel]

@Saltypatra

The change to EoE was intended, as we felt it improved the weapon. We will be keeping the order that the weapon now applies status effects, however, when Lycanthropy is fixed it will be added back to EoE.

It is a gigantic longshot but is there any possibility to find out what was the intention when adding Lycanthropy to “negative status effects” basket (even more so when there are delve troops capable of randomly applying it)? There surely must’ve been a vision on what Lycanthropy is supposed to accompmish and how it should enhance the gaming experience and make players want to use it?

[MagiBelgr]

I’m also very concerned that most players seem to already hate lycanthropy ( it IS broken as it is and definitely not a “negative” effect) and you seem to be planning a big update around that mechanic. Please please please don’t, for once listen to the feedback.