Is GoW attractive enough for new players, for making them stay? My opinion, please share yours!

Gameplay Chat (PC/Mobile)
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Today I asked myself, does PvP with all the extra menus create room for new players to breath? I seriously doubt this, it must be so very overwhelming being a new player in Gems of War in 2023 - where in the world do you even start, there is simply just too much going on. Too many menus, too many currencies - only two eyes. Where is the ingame guidelines?

And most GM’s nowadays struggle to recruit, and that may be a vague indicator on it all, that the game does not get more active players in, than players leaving, may even be more leaving than players is new and active.

Why have not dead accounts for years been deleted in the database? I see the PvP table I am in have quite some dead accounts.

I get it that you want to compete with similar mobile games on the marked, and are afraid of that players may choose those games instead if you do not pumping out new features, currencies, now a new PvP.

But GoW were better in the old days, when it was more simple. I feel the red tread is slowly going away, which made this game so good.

Nowadays eventho I do still enjoy the game - the game gets even overwhelming for me. I struggle to keep up with all the events - due my head can’t handle/remember them all. I already lost out on starry pets because of this. If I get overwhelmed I can’t help but ask myself, how about the brand new players - it must be so much worse for them. Almost like a tidal wave.

My opinion when it comes to GoW is that quality will always beat quantity.

I like what is going on with the new PvP, and can’t wait to see more of it as it will get crafted into place. Thank you for this! But when that is said, we must take it all into account, without new players staying around, there aint much winning in the grand picture of things.

Dev team may need to look closer into what new players wants in a game. Everyday life is already very stressful for most.

Conclution: Less is probably more, for most.

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As a new player, I would not want to join here, for the reasons you listed as well as the fact, that catching up on stuff is becoming more and more painful (try to get a good collection of mythics, if you haven’t been around during introduction weeks).

However what I see ocassionally, and especially with big updates like the current one, is the return of retired players. For this reason (and for the legal issue that would come with deleting an inactive account, that has money put into it), I would not agree with your thought in the middle of the posting to delete for inactivity.

This game is geared towards endgamers, and always has been (though obviously it did not stick out that much during the first two years).
Yank the carrot further away, when someone gets too close to it. Keep them running. Keep them paying. Don’t let the whales feel like they’re finished.
I tend to compare such games to cancer. Something, that was once a functioning unit, grows and grows beyond control, turning ever more bizarre, until it collapses under its own weight.

Games like this do not get finished. They only get abandoned at some point.

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As a casual player, I like all the different modes. If I were a new player, I would also enjoy the game. I am never on a leaderboard, I pick and choose what cards to level up as well as what kingdoms. I realize if I was more serious, I would have frustrations like many do here. Though I’m sure the game makes the most money on whales, it probably still makes a good chunk on players like me who buy a campaign pass or extra Holiday sigils…more intermittent stuff. My impression is they are trying to provide something for everyone and sometimes failing at pleasing various factions. For my part, I like the game as an old player and would like it as a new player.

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I tried getting into this game a couple of times in 2021 and 2022. I only really started playing at the end of 2022. Then I had the time to properly understand the game and push through some of the overwhelment. Now I appreciate all the depth and complexity and I especially enjoy the resource management system. However, I didn’t expect to find such deep and fun resource management in a match-3 rpg. So it may be that this game has grown into a more strategic game than it was in the beginning and may appeal to a different crowd than 9 years ago.

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I don’t think inactive accounts should be deleted. Mixing active and inactive accounts in the same PvP leagues was awkward, but I expect that to be sorted out after a few weeks of demotions and promotions.

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In the current F2P climate, less is more simply does not apply. If the game was more like its simple and twee past it’d be deader than a very dead thing.

It undoubtedly has, but unfortunately all that old original stuff is still right there blocking the way to the good stuff.

I’m new-ish but have played hard for about 4 months straight - a few days away from 5 months in and have since made a couple other accounts for various reasons, so I know what it’s like to be new right now.

IMO the game is terrible at bringing people in when so much of what you experience early on holds very little relation to what you end up sticking around for. The game I experienced for the first month was vastly different to the one I am now enjoying spending every spare minute with. It was the tidal wave of stuff to do and ways to progress that actually got me on board proper. For me the “better in the old days when it was simple” game is pretty awful, not nearly as compelling, and has little to offer in the way of what a modern F2P needs to survive.

In the guilds I’ve been in I’ve seen people who come and enjoy that first very standard trawl through the kingdoms and collecting new troops, but who then fail to kick on and get involved in the real game, choosing to just plod on and tickle the edges in a few minutes a few times a week. IP2 aren’t living off that, although some of them surprisingly do spend money on the most bizarre stuff, so… I’ve also invited in friends who I know would love to no-life the further reaches of the game just as I have been, but they simply cannot force themselves through the old cruft in order to reach and experience the good stuff I tell them about.

This is how it went for me, it’s probably quite boring so feel free to scroll right past:

The first day I played I saw the game on pstrophies.org and thought I’d quickly snag myself a few from that massive trophy list, nothing more. There was enough there to keep me popping back in for a few days. I’d played the old PQ games, had MPQ on my phone for years and this game felt familiar yet different enough to keep me invested. The rest of the first month I played on and off because while there was some fun there, I also had times when I was utterly frustrated with Luther giving me near-impossible stuff to do and almost deleted the game. If the game stayed like this I was never going to spend serious time let alone money money with it. This base game from the good old days is pretty dire in today’s landscape.

The first guild I found was all ZZZZzzz and nobody talked - awful, but that’s what most of those half-dead guilds the game offered me were like so I knew no different. It made the game feel desolate and solitary. The next one was better but not by much, but I stuck with it for a few weeks. I’d get replies to questions in chat the day after if at all. In the game I had no idea what was good and what was not, so I made do with the stuff that came with events, Slughoarder and Jeweled Golem, and spent my time boosting cash with Leprechaun for SH and spamming wildcards to scrape on through. I enjoyed scumming past much tougher teams in PvP even if it took ages, lol.

It was only when I started watching sinnycool’s and GK’s videos that I realised the game had a lot more to offer, and while a bit of that info was out of date in the current game it gave me stuff to aim for and things to do in a better structure than the game itself or the online web help had bothered to. Now I had goals, now I had targets, now I could see what getting specific troops could do for my effectiveness and enjoyment. Now I knew not to crap away my gold and gems on loot boxes and I could finally start playing the game properly.

I realise the devs have eased some of the early grind with a strong early weapon to choose, and trivial XP gains, but some people must surely be dropping the game cold when they meet certain roadblocks like Luther’s. There’s also probably a lot of people like my friends who would enjoy the current end game but just cannot stick with it through that early archaic stuff.

A guy has just joined out guild and he’s played like I do now, but from minute 1, done so for about the past week. He smashed the game hard for a couple of days, struggled on through on his own, then when someone saw him asking the right kind of questions in global chat they suggested he leave his dead guild and invited him to ours. Since then he must have asked at least 4 dozen questions by now and loads more info has been offered besides; he loves the game and already has realistic and sensible goals for someone playing so hard. Thing is he could so easily have been ignored in global chat or just not bothered to go there even, struggled on, got bored and dropped the game.

Basically it’s the existing players and content creators that do the most to ease new players in, not the game itself. The out of game web-based help is what it is - a cheap solution to a whole confusing mess of modes, currencies, events, etc., and given the budget the game is run on that’s understandable. But if that was my company and I wanted to keep this game running, bringing new players in and making cash, I’d be working with the likes of the content creators to produce something official by those who understand it best (no, not the devs, but the people who play it hour after hour, day after day) and thinking of ways to offer a huge bypass to a lot of the early guff.

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That archaic stuff, the tutorial bits and road blocks, relatively isn’t even all that old.

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It’s not the tutorials I’m saying is archaic, rather the trawl through the kingdoms and the inane back-and-forth, brain-dead chatter between the hero and the kingdom buddy. The road-blocking Luther stuff is terrible for different reasons, reasons that make people not want to play.

Hai, I’m Luther, here’s something that’s going to make you pull your hair out and have zero fun - enjoy!

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Oh, I agree, but I don’t think that it’s going to be removed any time soon unfortunately.

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Having gone through it 3 times recently and just helped someone else though, it needs work. A lot of work.

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First off, I don’t agree with deleting inactive accounts. I like seeing old players come back.

In this lengthy post, I’ve done my best to be critical but equally as understanding. Unfortunately, this post probably falls into “tl;dr” territory. As a result, read as much of this as you can handle.

In my opinion, I don’t think new players have much reason to stick around. This may sound harsh, but as much as I love this game, I think back to how I felt when I first started playing.

There was so much to learn when I started playing in 2019. I wasn’t sure if I could get around what felt like a learning curve and all of the many aspects of game-play.

Today, it’s much, much worse. There are campaigns and holiday events. After these, there’s still Underspire, Legend Reborn, Kingdom Pass, guild events, Adventure Board, dungeons, factions, and kingdoms.

New players need gems, gold, glory, banners, pets, weapons, medals, and the right troops if they want to meet the restrictions of the weekly guild event without it being impossible. There’s war coins too, which aren’t very useful after awhile. Let’s add leveling kingdoms, maxing out classes, orbs, vault keys, vault weekend, PvP, etc.

New players can definitely still find a place in the game if they find it enjoyable enough. The only problem is I doubt many people do. It’s mainly people that have been here for years that are sticking around and this number appears to be shrinking as more and more people quit.

Gems of War didn’t do a good job of teaching me how to play the game. Players did a good job of teaching me how to play the game. They told me what to prioritize and I found a good guild, etc.

I’m in no way saying that Gems of War is an awful game. The devs are doing a good job at creating new things for end game players to aim for, but in the process, they are making the game convoluted and difficult to understand for people that haven’t reached that point.

Keep in mind I already felt that the game was convoluted and a bit difficult when I first started playing it. Do I think the many additions since I began playing the game are awful? No, not necessarily. I like some of them but understand the criticism the game gets.

When we look at guilds struggling to recruit, that’s when we consider. Where did the game truly go wrong? Is it actually overwhelming or is there something the devs can do to retain player loyalty? Can we as the players be part of the solution in some way we haven’t yet considered?

I’ve seen people saying that the devs don’t listen to their players and I see where players are coming from with saying it (see: Krinklemas).

The devs have the data and the statistics to consider when developing new modes and introducing new things. I think they’re focusing on the wrong stuff. However, as a player, I don’t exactly think ignored is the right word. The F2P model requires development teams to push for spending and the devs are doing this. The F2P model is inherently predatory and actually also preys on developers but in different ways than it does with the player base.

Let’s consider some of them. There’s budgets, ideas for new troops, ideas for more factions, ideas for more kingdoms, ideas for more modes, taking time to address bugs in a constantly expanding game, what do the artists have to draw, how to make new traits work without causing bugs like Krinklemas, how to make sure end gamers don’t get bored, etc. There are many things that aren’t listed, but to keep the game growing, the point is developers have to constantly think about new approaches to expansion and their wallets. Putting these ideas into practice takes time we simply don’t see.

The development team needs to start thinking about how to retain players to preserve the longevity of the game for years to come, but as the game expands, they still need food on the table and a roof over their heads. Things are becoming increasingly more expensive, which in the minds of the devs means they have to more heavily push for spending in additional ways.

Given how often new content has to be released, there’s some stress from the development end too. I can basically assure you that’s the case.

I don’t know the answers to these problems, but at the very least, listening to more player feedback is one place to start. It takes time to prove that we’re being listened to though and we don’t know what kind of paychecks the developers are getting. We see more monetization, awful ideas like more RNG dragons and RNG in Underspire, etc. We don’t see how the development team is functioning or how much time they have for considering player feedback.

How respectful are we being toward the development team when we criticize their ideas? Are we giving their new modes a chance before we say they’re awful or are we becoming worse than the bugs we report? In a recent post, I remember hearing that some players aren’t so nice in private conversation. So, as much as we want to be listened to, a few bad apples aren’t exactly making it easy.

All we know is problems need to be addressed and we see that problems aren’t being addressed. We then have to keep bringing them up over and over. Unfortunately, in the end, every game has a lifespan.

As a community, we can help each other progress and stick with the game. To have a community, the dev team needs to take a step back and evaluate why the number of active players is still shrinking.

This is my two cents on the topic. May our accounts survive Krinklemas this year and I hope the development team is doing well.

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I think, you’re adding an interesting point that I usually tend to overlook, that catching up in this game does not only mean to get all the troops and weapons, that were slowly introduced over the years, but also learning the game from zero in short time, while veterans had the chance to grow into the new modes one by one.

I think, most of the early players were brought here by (the original) Puzzle Quest, which, being a paid game, was an entirely different experience, despite being the same match 3 concept, and those two keep moving apart ever further.
PQ was a singleplayer game, that was structured from a start to and end and that grew alongside you. A lot of the disappointment still today may be, because this game goes into a very different direction.
I often wish, they had stuck with that format. And I am afraid, I am part of the reason, they did not, as I did not spend money to buy it until it was in a discount bin.

Would I buy Gems of War as a full game singleplayer version? I guess so. But for far less, than a whale pays here in a single month.

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Maybe frustrating players all along the way isn’t the best way to retain them. That would be a place to start.

Is promising a method to target specific dragons within 2023 only to then add more random dragons before the year ends with no targeting inside really “fun”.

For me it isn’t. I’m already getting frustrated again and am not sure if I even have the will to try to get that final dragon from the eggs as I already have 4 of one and 2 of another.

Underspire RNG - same thing.

Since the sentinels got introduced I’ve finished underspire fully but haven’t even gotten even one. Doesn’t make me want to play underspire more.

And then endgame accounts get punished all the way. The paths was a huge outrage and now they’re doing it again with pvp. Why?

A game should not punish players for advancing.

We “old” players (only about 4 years for me so I’m not that old in the game) still invest money. We may nkt buy every stupid thing thrown at us but we keep purchasing things of actual value like campaign or kingdom passes and lanterns now that they carry over.

Another thing is, why aren’t things priced sensibly? Devs can’t really expect that people are going to spend $20 for one random book. Besides of the whales, maybe, but I’m not made of money, and one book doesn’t get me far - especially if I’m still gambling on what it will be.

I’d also like to add that the cost of living crisis has hit everyone who isn’t super rich. How are we supposed to come up with the money they’d like us to spend?

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I have mostly given up on the communication here. Due to the indirect model, that allows for no contact between development and players, whatever we are told is unreliable by default. Maybe the same is true in the other direction as well.
The moderation transmits whatever they see fitting, and at least with Kafka, it has been clear for years, that they are willing to make stuff up.
This whole system is broken. Intentionally so. When the feedback does not show up in numbers (like the dramatic player loss after the August graphics update), they are simply unable to notice it.

A few added words on my last posting up there; by making this game a continuation to their previous match 3 games, they chose to be compared to them. And while this here is of course far from the disaster that was Dungeon Keeper 3, I have never seen a franchise, that improved in quality by switching from a purchase PC or console game to free to play phone.

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This is another problem. With prices getting worse in general, what incentive do we have to spend money on Gems of War? Basically everyone is struggling right now in one way or another and this goes beyond the scope of my issues with Gems of War.

I spend here and there, but most of my budget is spent on the campaign and Kingdom Pass. I don’t like the direction this game is headed in, because even though I’ve extended some understanding, I agree. The game shouldn’t punish people for advancing and progressing through the game. This makes no sense and only makes more people want to quit playing.

In regards to finances, the fact everyone is struggling just makes the amount of added monetization worse. As much as I understand it, it still makes the devs look bad. I once looked at the prices for buying gems and the pricing was just insane. How do they think we live? Most players aren’t made of money.

All the RNG with dragons is ridiculous. I also hate the concept of perfect runs with a burning passion. I can be understanding, but it’s true. The devs don’t live up to what they say in many cases. I’m not sure why this is. However, I’m not going to come to their defense on this one. They somehow thought another set of RNG dragons was a good idea instead of getting the message that players hate RNG troops like the Hoard Mimic and the sentinels in Underspire.

I think their intent with these troops is so players always lack something and it gives players a reason to keep coming back. They don’t seem to realize it’s having the opposite effect. Players are leaving instead.

People will return to a game that’s fun, not to a game that wants us to do nothing else but play it.

I get that the devs have schedules and can’t always find time to listen to us, but it’s in bad taste to promise something and then decide, instead, to create the same experience again but with more Dragonite this time. Getting the Dragonite takes forever and the amount each player needs varies because of the RNG involved in getting all 6 dragons.

I know game development isn’t the easiest field, but some of the dev’s ideas are ridiculous. It’s going to take me forever to get those sentinels and I feel like something keeps getting lost in translation with every update that gets released.

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Guilds in this game are a real puzzle. They are central to everything and should be the natural way the game brings players together to keep them playing and become stronger together. And they can do that to a great extent when there’s a full guild of active players all doing their part. But those guilds are few and far between.

IMO a lack of individual player incentive really ruins guilds, it’s too easy for drifters and the lazy to do a bare minimum or close to it and skim off the efforts of others. Having to nag people, kick them, constantly recruit from a dwindling player base just thinning out… who would want to be a GM in anything but a very top or very casual guild in this game? A baby bear’s porridge straight down the middle guild of 30 all doing enough and more must be a very rare thing indeed, given all the recruiting and drama I see in global chat.

The way the game has guilds set up is pretty terrible IMO and they should be the thing that is 100% the most important thing to get exactly right. As I said, there’s no incentive for players to stick around and every incentive to hop about and get away with doing as little as possible to skim off the efforts of others. There’s very little incentive for a player to go above and beyond obvious or agreed req’s when they’re hardly ever rewarded for it. The way scoring works in events with a really, really scummy ramp up before tailing off is just more pressure on the GM to nag and kick backsides on a Sunday night but aim for a max capacity of 30 at all times. All these needless and pointless pressure and contention points brought about by a predatory scaling in rewards and a lack of individual incentive to do well. None of that is fun for anyone bar the lazy and exploitative because they know players are constantly in demand and they can go do the same in any number of other guilds next week when they’re booted. But the same is true of good players who want good guilds - you join, see what’s going on, and even if there’s just 1 or 2 not pulling their weight why stick around? So they’re gone in a week as well. Building the right team of 30 is practically impossible when you consider natural churn or players dropping the game, life getting in the way, lazy good-for-nothing drifters and all manner of other things, in the context of a scoring system that demands everyone having to do their part but zero incentive to do anything more other than not missing out when others slack off (which just breeds more resentment).

Guilds/clans attempt do far less in other games and rely far less on having them, yet they’re far more successful at helping retain players and build bonds. In this game that basically revolves around them, there’s some basics of implementation that are actively working against the good of players, GMs, the game as a whole and therefore the devs/producers who keep it running.

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My tip would be “Don’t join guilds, join guild families”. Each player can find their natural fit in such a group of guilds and take advantage of sideways moves within the family to either increase or decrease their participation as enthusiasm level and real-life dictates.

Look in the Recruiting threads on this forum or follow the recruiting channel on the GoW official discord.

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The part, that would discourage me to ever take the option of a multiguild association (ignoring the fact, that I really like the guild, I am in right now) is, that communication gets really troublesome. While there is of course the possibility to occupy a random global channel, I doubt that the meager means, the game has to offer, will be enough to deal with the necessary, if you need to plan with a multiple of 30 players.

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All the good guilds will use Discord as the communication tool of choice. For non-PC/Steam players, Discord also has a great mobile app. I appreciate there might be some issues getting builds shown in Discord into a team for players on consoles, but I have no experience with those platforms to know how well (or if indeed at all) integrated Discord is for them.

But, to stay on topic, I feel the game needs to better direct new players towards the real guild recruitment grounds, and to make them aware that the free guilds to which they can automatically sign up to should only be treated as stepping stones to bigger and better things.

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Any game, that makes third party software and accounts mandatory, is doing something very wrong. It is bad enough, that the announcements have to be checked outside the game.

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