I don’t know if that would really help. Right now, I feel like I get a lot of knights, a lot of goblins, and a lot of miscellaneous other stuff. Maybe a third of each. So I could see a lot of people setting up a goblin team, a knight team and something else, leaving me feeling about the same about the amount of variety.
The attacker would see the team of course.
If 3 isnt enough then 5, 7, 10?
I prefer my concept as it requires more frequent input but it is a great option for those who disagree with mine.
Yeah actually why doesn’t it just pull from your created teams? Like say at least 20 teams if you are high enough level. Though people could just make all 20 teams the same, lol. I really like the idea though. They should just forget about defense penalties altogether to the player, and just make defense teams randomly generated for all. People would still get to use their “OP” troops on offense which counts the most. (it still might be a legal issue) But I really like this idea. People just need to get over it because defense losses are not the end of the world. The randomly generated troops could still have kingdom levels and power factored in. Along with your player level. Similar to arena. Devs could also control the teams a bit, since they have to hit a certain strength criteria to make it hard on players when it needs to be. I see that it could stream-line bug fixes and nerfs as well. If a troop is too over-powered it could just be pulled from the defense randomly generated cycle til it gets fixed.
@Sirrian @Nimhain What do you all think of this idea as a whole? Randomly generated defense teams like arena?
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Could have two team lists. One for attack and one for defence?
Maybe if they remove the scout feature as well, while the defenders would be randomized and restricted for no copies we still have a big advantage scouting and picking the right team to use for not having any restriction being the invader.
Do you not think scouting is useful to promote strategy?
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It is, but having a limitation factor only for the defending teams is a great disadvantage if there’s no limitation for the attackers. It just doesn’t strikes me as a fair change.
Scout could see some rework, maybe because 50 gold is not a big deal, after level 200 as it was suggested by Eika it’s meaningless.
I don’t see them ever making a change that would need to have scouting removed. IMHO, scouting is the key to having fun with strategy and team building. Otherwise, you’d be stuck using the most OP all-around team you could build. And well, that just hurts variety on offense.
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That died with the release of Maw and Infernal King. Mab and Khorvash exasperated the situation and now you will see at least 1 of these 5 (Mercy added) in 99% of Invade teams
Fair enough. That may be true for many players. But, a player still has the ability to use other invade solutions if they are willing to have a match that is longer than 1 minute.
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It’s been established that most don’t and blow up entire threads to defend their “right” to the speed meta. Any suggestion to reverse it has been viscously attacked.
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I cant foresee a situation where scouting should be removed
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It’s just my opinion, it’s not like the defenders have a lot of chance in the current state of the game, but adding a restriction that’s applied to the defenders only reduces even more their chances.
When i suggested the weekly bans it would affect both sides, attackers and defenders. It would be a limited and restrictive side event, but would appeal to more variety on the attacking side too.
I understand what you are saying but I dont think it would be worth removing strategy from the invaders selection. It is more important to improve the experience of the player invading. Surely it is possible to make 5 teams, or even 10, that are of similar effectiveness
In the new pvp system exiting the battle counts as a loss… Even if it’s due to a lost connection. I’m not saying that scouting has no place in this game, but if we could have real PVP it would not be possible to have scouting. Just food for thought.
If they take away the penalties people wouldn’t even bother assembling defending teams, if people are already grinding the leaderboards using fast/unbalanced combinations things as they are now would scalate if you face only teams with “Forever alone Peasant”.
You gotta read my idea in the OP above. I think they need to remove penalties for defense losses, and make all players have randomly generated defense teams similar to arena. That way they can just scale troops for challenge. Your troops would still scale based on player level and kingdom levels/stars. Also they could leave certain troops out of the generated loops. (such as peasant and other useless troops)
This way it wouldn’t be any diferent than Explore mode we have now and you guys are getting soon. Explore have some crazy random combinations, most of it are totally bad, some are fairly decent because of the traits but that’s rare, you can find Knight Coronet fully traited as the last troop often.
Not the topic, but i’m still hoping for more news on the next balance changes to rework useless troops into something better.
I’m speaking from PC perspective, and yeah I hope they do a balance pass on older troops too. It would most definitely be different from explore mode. Troops that you have traited would be traited as well. The only thing that changes is it’s a random chosen team. All the devs would have to do though is pick like let’s say 20 good constructed teams, and run those teams on a random loop for defense teams. Explore mode doesn’t really have a difficulty scaling like arena does. This would be implemented.
I’m a +1 for Eika’s idea of setting three defences and the game switch through them. We’d probably see a maw team, an khorvash team and a Mab team or goblin team. But that would be a little more variety.
I’d like to see the hero used more, because they are rarely used at higher levels. Not sure what mechanism to achieve this.
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Speaking as a PC/Mobile player here, but as this is a problem that affects us, too:
Yeah, putting it up as a task would probably be out of the question, but what I’ve suggested multiple times is that all rewards for defense given a large multiplier (and perhaps even additional rewards that aren’t present) for using (and/or winning with) underused defense compositions. This reward structure would be only be affected when the defense team encounters an invading team, where the server has to be queried anyway. Outside of this, it would be pretty useless anyway - the whole point is that players actually encounter the variety. Changing your defense lineup when you are idling from PvP isn’t going to affect anyone one way or the other since you aren’t actualy getting invaded. General troop usage statistics are already tracked (we’ve seen the graphs), and the server has to be queried when a battle is initiated. Still quite a bit of dev time to actually get a tracking system up and running that can automatically make, say, daily modifications to a reward structure based on previous usage as well as find a way to get the relevant data to the player.
Limiting teams or scouting in general is a bad idea. You are basically putting the burden on the player to make the game fun for everyone or be penalized, and instead of incentivizing them in some way for doing so, you are slapping them on the wrist for not doing so. I actually enjoy changing my defense team week to week, and this would simply kill it for me. Sometimes I like using weird teams. Sometimes I like using “OP” stuff. Sometimes I like to scout and counter, sometimes I’ll try and brute force. Taking options off the table is unnecessarily restrictive. Giving me additional rewards for going out of my way to be unique? Yes, please. Punishing me for using stuff I had to earn? No, thanks.
Its mostly a psychological thing. To anyone not in the running for top 1000 that is also not in danger of falling below 1900 points (a huge amount of the playerbase, judging from my 17000th place currently at over 2700 points), points are literally worthless. Victory therefore is a smattering of gold and glory, both which are far eclipsed from taking revenge attacks. In short, its actually still more beneficial to take losses most of the time even for the chance at rolling revenges.
This is only half of the equation, though. The other half is being removed from matchmaking if you haven’t done PvP in a while (10 hours, I believe?). The people grinding away at PvP day in and day out are going to be encountered a lot more (and by a lot more people) than those that do their weekly grind to tier one and leave it sit for a week. Thus, those using “meta” teams are going to compound how much this team is seen.
As such, we should probably do a few things:
- Remove any sort of point penalty from defense losses. It is pretty much non-existent anyway, and irrelevant to over 90% of the playerbase. This only factors into step 2, which…
- Drastically increase the time a player stays in the matchmaking pool. Preferably the whole week, but them slowly drop out over time the current period, but don’t remove them completely. Without a loss of a few points here and there, those that are tier 1 and done will have absolutely no worry about just setting up one team a week without having nickel-and-dime losses take away their precious one glory a day after dropping reward tiers. This is mostly a revision for starting or early game players, for everyone else this is mostly a psychological thing, since the reward is very negligable. An ideal system would take about half to a third of the battles normally going to the more active players and splitting them up among the ones that are less active during the later part of the week.
- Enact some sort of reward bonus (+ additional rewards) for using (more for winning) with underused troops. Said bonus is only to be given when the team is actually encountered.
(bonus) More events? For offense AND defense? Please?
(P.S. for PC/Mobile small tasks for PvP such as console already have as a draw to perform PvP on days other than Monday would also help a bit for the matchmaking stagnation)
Sure, copy paste defense teams will still be a thing, and permanent set and forget features will be as well, but the above maximizes the chance at both encountering a wider variety of teams AND a larger pool of opponents. It also ensures that the desire to win is still there, without having it be less of a mental blockade for creativity.
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