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I dread the return of Raid week

Not really “dreading” it, its more of a “meh” feeling. The gem costs, energy system, guild reward/score tie-in for something that really doesn’t interact with the guild at all, and overall lack of rewards make dominant strategy trend toward a policy of non-interaction in what, with some changes in both execution and rewards, could have potentially been one of my favorite modes. The only change so far has been a single major orb of growth to slightly skew the Zuul’Goth chase into the realm of “maybe possible” for a few groups (although I still need to redo my math once there have been enough to get a clearer picture of the drop ratios on orbs, since my previous calculations of years still assumed equal drop rates and Ascension has, thus far on three accounts, been significantly rarer.)

What is mostly boils down to is the placement of orbs on the reward structure is that they are the ultimate prize of the game when their functions (yes, even Ascension) are all extremely underwhelming compared to the prospect of getting a troop you didn’t have before. The entire mode, its gem costs, the amount of hoops you have to jump through all seem to be predicated toward this - had this actually been the case, many people would be less vocal about extremely repetitive grinds, gem costs, and other problems plaguing the mode. Not that these aren’t also a huge problem that would cause burn-out long term no matter how good the rewards are (mostly the whole “guild obligation” angle that drives people to play it even if they don’t want to because they want to remain associated with their current guild, otherwise, it would lead into just less participation and engagement), I just think a lot less people would complain about it.

If, for example, raids were designed like this:

  • Godslayer is something that is more readily available (and/or, not a thing at all but with more sensible scaling on the troops)
  • The troop for the raid is an epic troop tuned to be used in the rest of the game
  • Alternatively, this could have been another guild wars troop type situation where they are “common” rarity but handed out gradually and not made its way into normal chests
  • event weapons that actually made sense, period
  • All rewards besides sigils for existing raid tier purchases are simply spread out over the portal reward tiers in addition to what is there (p10/r12 - mythic copy of the troop right away, initial copy at a low reward tier)
  • Raid shop teirs replaced by the ability to simply buy sigils in packs (slight discounts for bulk)
  • Actual rewards for winning individual battles (eg., large amounts of glory and gold) that eclipse just brainlessly farming PvP
  • orbs distributed in such a way that you are less completely at the mercy of the RNG - ie, “orb fragments” dropping that add up to the same amount of orbs, but smooth out the RNG, or just having fixed but rotating reward tables for specific orbs

It would have been infinitely more palletable, while being almost exactly the same rewards and gameplay wise. It still has the paid leaderboard and gem costs to push to the final reward tier, but because the thing you care about is actually somewhere on the reward table, it would encourage actually playing and pushing for that extra amount. Instead, the thing that you care about (loosely, since it is basically kingdom points filler beyond the week) you buy for 100 gems (+150 if you are still getting the weapons). The only fundamental difference here is that they sink those tiny bit of gems from even those that don’t want to participate in the event because they want to maintain full collection and then they play out of a sense of obligation rather than any kind of sense of reward, either intrinsic or extrinsic. And that tiny up front gem sink seems to be causing much more resentment than it is affecting any kind of economic correction. Why can’t the mode stand on its own merits and entice people that want to play more to dive in with additional gem purchases? What happened to “we sell fun”?

Of course, I’d still personally have preferred if either of these were much longer running events that didn’t tie my personal participation into my guild getting or not getting rewards along with tweaks to either the scaling or the restrictiveness or the pool (one or the other can foster creativity, both to the degree they are now limits it).

tl;dr:

  • Reward structure needs to feel rewarding. Every time. Not only if you are “lucky”. Not only if you are “not unlucky”. Every. Time.
  • Simple Battle Rewards for these events need to be worth the time spent compared to stuff you can do every day at any time (ie., PvP and/or explore). Consistently.
  • Loosen team comp restrictions or tone down scaling a bit to allow people to be creative. Maybe both? (Reinforcements from x kingdom after y battles)
  • the entire event should be tuned to be completed ~3-5 hours playtime per participant at an average speed, significantly less if you don’t by sigils (every other weekly reward in the game, combined, can generally be completed within this at endgame including guild wars, and this one thing sticks out like a sore thumb in terms of relative time commitment)
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done

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The core issue with the reward structure is that it is based on the dreaded “gems equivalent” metric. Which essentially means that it’s good for a new player just starting out, a pile of mostly worthless junk for players who have been around for a while. And it tends to be those players who have been around for a while that currently contribute most of the gems and effort to unlock those rewards.

At the cost of sounding like a broken record, make a shop that allows players to buy the rewards they are interested in. Single item category, e.g. “Orb of Ascension”, “Celestial Trait Stone” or “Diamonds”, not a mixed bag of disappointment. Currency would be event points, e.g. boss damage dealt or towers killed. Allow the same item to be purchased multiple times throughout the week, possibly at increasing costs.

There’s your ticket for making those game modes a success, players will actually want more sigils instead of dreading having to use them. You don’t even have to hand out more on average, you only need to stop giving sand to people living in the desert.

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I left my guild this week. I may do the daily dungeons for now in hopes that one day they will remove these infernal modes and go back to guild wars (3 weeks of gw and 1 week of these other events per month I could stand, but the way it is now, forget it).

Thanks for ruining the game devs.

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Maybe we could be a bit more productive here. Why don’t we try to come up with ways that this might be salvaged?

Changing the rotation of events, for instance. That’s been said plenty of times.

What we have to understand is that the devs have put too much time and cost into these things to just get rid of them or something.


My ideal solution would be… have GW all the time. Put the pitchforks away please…

Well. We could have GW all the time, and have a weekend event every week. And have that rotate between bounty and raid boss and invasion, or something… And just scale them the hell down, since the tediousness is the problem here. Zuul should level up several times faster over few missions, and towers should probably match Zuul.

As for the gem costs on the things? Scale them down too. Everyone will be able to afford the godforsaken Tiers and the people who still want to go totally nuts can still do that.

“What about the godslayer / siegebreaker troops we get as weekly event troops?” - those shouldn’t be event troops in the first place and we all know it. Bounties have the right idea, pooling them all. I don’t quite know how to resolve this one though.

Someone else can figure out how to make GW more manageable. I’m biased since I like the mode way more than most of you lol.

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Personally, I hate GW. I do them to help my guild out and that’s the only reason. That said, Raid and Invasion events need to be made to feel a LOT more rewarding than they are now. They take incredible amounts of time and the payout is embarassingly weak.

Also, the “Gem value” thought process behind rewards needs to take a hike - rewards need to stand on their own merit.

I don’t value a Gem key at 10 Gems or an Event key at 15 Gems. I don’t value Gold or Souls as being worth Gems at all. I can’t be alone in thinking that “Gem value” is an invention designed to gloss over the increasing reduction in resources to try and make it appear like the players are still getting something equally worthwhile.

When I was a kid I got an allowance for doing chores around the house. My parents gave me $X and I could spend or save it as I chose…they didn’t buy me random things from the store, hand them to me, and tell me they were worth $X so I still technically got $X. Being given a candy bar, a book, and a few pens would have been worthless regardless of their value when I was trying to save up for a computer game. Giving people stuff instead of base currency is taking away their spending power. Trying to cover it up by saying the stuff is equally valuable is deceptive.

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Rewards good for newer accounts, but mostly achievable by older accounts. They assign waaaay to much “gem value” to these orbs. What is the gem value of 6000 gold? 600 souls? Makes my mouth feel dirty just saying gem value…

I agree with this although saying “really” is a little strong. I like guild wars a lot more then raid or invasion due to their monotony and Raids BS kill shot no matter what protection mechanics.

I agree with this statement completely without reservation.

The worst issue is one that OP brought up and that is the lack of feedback from the Devs on all our feedback. With the exception of the usual suspects (Those that always claim OP troops don’t need to be nerfed, that all new changes are good, basically yellow journalists for the Devs/Pubs) pretty much everyone has stated their dislike and boredom/irritation with these new game modes without Dev providing feedback.

Complain with your wallets, stop purchasing micro-transactions and maybe that will get through to them (doubt it, but we have to try).

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I think it’s very true that if there is more than one game mode, everyone will agree one is not frequent enough but no one will agree which one should be more frequent or how much more frequent it should be.

That said, I side with @Clark’s observation that we really have very little insight into whether the devs are reading and what their opinions of our opinions might be. I understand to some extent they don’t want to make promises before they know what they’ll do, and that not every thread warrants a response, but these are big game modes that dominate gameplay. It feels like they dumped them on us with a hearty, “You’re going to play this and like it because it is what it is” and walked away.

So far the only tweaks that have been made are after-the-fact adjustments to bugged reward levels and some minor fixes to bugged Valraven behavior.

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Personally, I am the opposite. I dread the return of Guild Wars, though I don’t
mind it as much now having it only every 3 weeks.

I like the new modes a lot. I get that a lot of people find them to be grinds, but I don’t. I wouldn’t be opposed to some changes, but in general I like the strategy and challenge involved in the new modes.

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QFT

If the devs made these two changes, it would go a long way in fixing raid and invasion issues. Frankly, some kingdoms and some race types are too weak and undeveloped for these modes. It’s like they put the cart before the horse when they introduced these new game modes with their team restrictions.

As for individual fight rewards, it goes without saying that I shouldn’t get rewards that are less than what I get for a normal explore battle for raid/tower battles that take far more time to complete.

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I don’t get why rewards don’t scale with stats in some way shape or form. By the time Thursday rolls around I’m playing at what should be like Warlord X but getting “Normal” rewards. Sure, yes, eventually we get the raid boss rewards, but while I’m grinding out 5 minute-long matches I’m thinking about how I could be getting 10k gold or souls instead.

Invasion/Raid Boss feel like they were designed really well for a different game. In that game, kingdom/type synergy was designed from the start to provide overwhelming bonuses, and few people play mixed teams. There’d be some way for new players to participate, given that they lack legendary/mythic troops.

Instead every week the optimal 2-3 teams are made obvious, and if you don’t have the mythics/legendaries they require you’re SOL. You’re forced to make do with lesser troops that may not even synergize and hope that Mang will see you through. Even if you do have the optimal teams, you’re throwing yourself at battles you’re eventually going to lose. A guild’s higher-end players have to carry a lot more burden than the lower-end players, and there’s no way for guild leaders to ensure people are actually making an effort.

It’s half-baked, and we were promised it would continue being tweaked after it came out. Instead it sat on the counter and got cold and soggy.

I always look forward to finishing my sigils out of obligation to my guild so I can get around to doing the things in the game I find fun. This is in stark contrast to GW, which may be repetitive PvP battles but at least I see how I help my guild with every battle.

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I never thought the day would come but raids/invasions finally made me say my farewells to my guild and leave the game. Everything you said is dead on…they are long and boring with basically no choice in teams and just doing the same thing day after day for a week. Being in a guild you feel obligated to do it to help but it just got to the point I would rater be at work than come home and have to do those…How I miss the weekly GW now. I could deal with the raids/invasions until maybe Wednesday but there is just no way I could do them for a week…well really two weeks straight…way too much boredom there.

I am now playing pokemon go with my son having way more fun than I could with those things and just waiting for the new battletech game to release on steam next week. lol who would have ever though GoW could have ever fell lower than pokemon? Well for me that day has come.

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