let’s not be hasty here as internal testing can get you so far. “remember the bat”
Go to bed and wake up to this thread being on fire. 
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When it comes down to it, I don’t think this is necessarily about manticore specifically, but the entire “mana drain” mechanic in the game.
I think it has no real place in the game as GoW is currently engineered. If it were real PvP, then yes absolutely. If the game was more “high stakes” where stopping a human player’s single spellcast would have a real impact on the outcome of the match, you could still then make an argument for it.
Specifically because of the high-by-design winrate, having my troops get mana drained is just delaying the inevitable. My personal annoyance is that it is just an interruption to the fun. The match taking longer isn’t a problem in and of itself, That’s kind of a straw man. It’s that the reason for the match taking longer adds nothing to the experience. It erases the thought I put into the last few moves. Frequently, I am forced to make a move that I know is pointless because of an already-charged mana drainer. Combine the non-meaningful annoyance with the frequency that manticore’s low casting cost permits and you have a noteworthy negative impact on my play experience.
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I think the mana drain mechanic would be 100X more annoying in Live PVP. It would be abused to death. However, I do agree that mana drain as a mechanic is irritating. I hope they don’t put many more mana drain + stun troops in the game.
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I just fought the OPs defence team.
I chuckled… 
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You mean the Manti/Mercy/Manti/Manti team?
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Yep that was it.
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Change trait to “Gain impervious if in last slot” > everybody happy.
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Interesting that I’ve faced a couple of the people that lit up this thread complaining about Manticore and they’re both using him.
“Manticore is too powerful. Mab is too powerful. Khorvash is too powerful. So I think I’ll put all 3 of them in the same defense deck.”
ROFL The nerve of some people…
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I’m using two Manticores and two Spirit Foxes on defense, i did got the same amount of wins and losses so far:
- 5 Defensive wins.
- 5 Defensive losses.
Maybe i could have a better result if i try some compositions i saw today, a brief report as it follows:
After being at level 400 for a few days i did noticed an increased number of defensive teams using Mana Drain oriented troops. Some compositions:
- Wraith/Wraith/Manticore/Manticore → Wraith is quite nasty, Chill and Death Touch will slow you down with freeze or forcing you to play around Cleanse, if you run Mercy, trying to avoid the sudden death. The Mana Drain or Life Steal being a 50%/50% is ok even with the low mana cost, it slows the battle stealing your HP to be more “tanky” or simply denying your mana. But he is way more beatable because he lacks Impervious.
- Khorvash(Manticore)/Valk/Mab/Manticore → Trying to combo Frozen + Stun while adding Manticore for annoyance? Khorvash and the other two are not immune to anything, an upfront Manticore in his place is more effective at slowing down the battle and i faced both versions one after the other.
- Manticore/Wraith/Succubus/Manticore → Succubus Death Mark killed my first troop, Wraith stealing health proved to be quite deadly to my second troop, had to give up because pulling a victory would be time consuming and while playing at work i must try my best to not take so long.
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I haven’t fought you yet. 
The team is not great, i faced it once and thought: Why not? The Spirit Foxes will deny yellow to Manticore and the second damage from the spell is always weaker than the first since the yeloow mana is now removed, but the little rascals have a “fake” Impervious with Stealthy since they can’t be targeted.
My theory is that the team can counter Maw very well because they can’t be devoured.
Using Manticore/Spirit Fox/Manticore/Spirit Fox formation leaves at least one Manticore free from Khorvash’s Mana Drain, so this Manticore, will most likely, accumulate attack.
But by all means i think this is a very cheesy team.
I don’t see that as surprising or hypocritical. People aren’t necessarily complaining because they can’t beat something, but because they feel it’s not healthy for the game, or because they feel they have fewer viable options due to power creep making older options relatively worse. They’ll do whatever it takes to win, but that doesn’t mean they’ll like what they feel they’re forced to do. Some people aren’t as simple as “happy when they’re winning, mad when they’re losing”.
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Their complaint is that it’s BORING to face these teams in PVP. Mana drain slows the game down and is “annoying”.
So they use multiple mana drain troops for defense? To what end? To annoy anyone who might face them, to prove a point? In fact, one could argue that their intentionally behaving like griefers.
It’s so junior high. NOBODY is forced to do anything, it’s a freaking game. If the mana drain mechanic is so terrible, you’d think they’d at least have the decency to support their own opinion and not use it.
I’m not surprised though. Such is the state of online gaming in general.
Certainly. I say it with no shame because i’m not arguing that Mana Drain isn’t a valid strategy, it’s just a strategy that leans towards against the fun, wich is subjective for everyone, but well… Manticore is just proving to be OVERLY effective on that because of it’s low mana cost to recharge.
(I’ve advocated on Maw nerf while using it, because it was brainles sometimes and to a certain point the only thing i could do against it was exploits the troop’s broken mechanics myself. )
You can always “pass” Khorvash in the run because his mana cost is higher and there is nothing instantly filling the board with Blue or Brown (directly) to help him but even when he casts it takes a good number of moves, wich allows you to come back into the game. With banners and Mana surges Manticore goes nuts, and the extra attack points restricts the number of times you can “bait it” with skulls.
So as it was pointed maybe a slight increasing in the mana cost or a fix number of mana drained could work on the issue without too much grief for the ones that are relying on Manticore
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The thing is, I’m not using Manticore at all now. I have actually come to the conclusion that I was WRONG - Manticore probably does need a nerf. If he’s REALLY that annoying to face, then I won’t use him as I don’t want to contribute to anyone else not enjoying the game.
I’m sorry but it’s pretty low to simultaneously decry the use of Manticore, due to the fact that he’s “annoying” while continuing to use him on defense because the ONLY reason to do that would be to ANNOY others.
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I’m not holding any grudge against you or anything, really, but since some people stated that it’s just a matter of “strategy”, that we were “ruining the game” or that it’s just a matter of being a good player (implying i and others are not) to overcome the challenge i see no reason why i, and others, shouldn’t use such troop.
So yeah, i’m not being the “better man” at this point.
One of the claims that is usually throwed against the “anti-nerf crew” is that they want to keep exploiting overpowered troops, and here it reached the absurd, to me, by being reversed into:
“You want this troop nerfed so you can keep exploiting your already overpowered troops/combinations.”
And again, by all means, if some combination is becoming too dominant it is fair that the devs do something about it, nerfing some element usually, but at least it requires a lot of resources to make an OP team like Maw/Mercy/IK/Sheggra, while with Manticore you need an Ultra-Rare and 3 Arcane Light and it ended becoming frequent because it’s power is above the curve as you seems to agree now.
Again, i’m not holding any grudge against you, but i will keep monitoring this thread as far as it goes.
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It comes down to a matter of integrity.
For the record, I don’t ever remember you saying that Manticore was anything other than unbalanced. I’m only responding specifically to you because you responded to me, not because you’ve offended me in any way.
Other’s have suggested that he’s ruining their enjoyment of the game. He’s not overpowered but rather he makes matches longer and much more annoying. For those people to continue to use Manticore in their defense teams is really inexcusable because the ONLY reason for them to do so, based on their own logic, is to annoy others.
Two wrongs don’t make a right and they’re not proving a point by acting this way, unless the point is to prove that they’re not mature enough to get their point across any other way.
The most common form of empathy you’ll find is the selective one.
The recurrent excuse we give to others and ourselves is: “It’s just…”
- It’s just a game… He should take it sportily.
- It’s just this time… I won’t do it again.
- It’s just payback… He started it.
…
You’re obviously referring to me (amongst others?).
It’s simple really. Why I have 2 Manticore’s in my defense team? It wins more battles than any other defense I’ve tried.
I used to have a Great Maw defense (Maw, Maw, Mercy, IK, and before tha Maw, Mercy, Sheggra, IK). All fully traited and double yellow banner (and almost all kingdoms at PL5). Those defense won about 30-33% of the time.
Now I run Manticore, Khorvash, Amira, Manticore). Double yellow banner. Manticore is fully traited, Khorvash has 2 traits, Amira has 1 trait. Also double yellow banner. This wins 45% of the time (small sample size (it’s been active for about 2 weeks now)).
Why would I not play the best defense I’ve found so far?
If that makes me a hypocrite or immature in your eyes, then that’s fine. You can believe whatever you want about me…
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