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Hypothetically speaking

… If a guild is proven to cheat or use an Exploit in guild wars. What would happen to that guild for the next guild wars?
Do they drop a bracket or all brackets?
Do they stay in their current bracket?
If they got first in their bracket does the rest of the bracket move up 1 in GW rank? So like the guild that was supposed to drop a bracket now gets to stay in it?
Does a guild that lost to a cheating guild in a daily match up get their seals and XP given to them at a later date?
Does the cheating guild get their guild wars rewards taken away? If so, is it given to the rank below them?

@the devs, I’m sure answering these questions won’t be a priority and that’s fine. I, and at least a few others, would appreciate clarification sometime before the next guild wars though. Even though they are all just hypothetical questions of course.

Thank you in advance. :grinning:

They would get away with it, and you won’t be allowed to call them out :slight_smile:

All rewards lost by others won’t be compensated either.

You know this to be fact that there won’t be repercussions? I’m aware of not being able to call them out… All… To… Well. :roll_eyes:

In theory there should be, but when have repercussions actually happen outside of blatant trainer use?

I’m unaware of any repercussions, which is kind of the point of the thread. But to the best of my knowledge. There hasn’t been a guild that was caught cheating in bracket 1 before. So my questions are definitely sincere. Knowing that the devs couldn’t talk about it if it actually happened. But it would be nice to know what would happen if it did? (If that makes any sense)

Depends on whether its an individual or a few, or a large or total majority of the guild. And the devs unfortunately can’t be sure what to do in the event of being told that “it was just them I swear” - if their findings suggest that it was only a small amount, they can’t know if the rest of the guild knew and supported this or not, etc.

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I suppose one way would be to check and see which members used the exploit. Those that did get their points changed to 0 for that GW, and let the guilds final position be reflected after the total points deduction.

Then claw back GW rewards, and provide compensation rewards for other guilds that may have moved up. That’s what I think should happen for the GW that has just passed.

Any subsequent penalty, say the guild is banned for the next X GWs, is another discussion.

I feel like context matters, and I’m pretty sure the devs don’t have a script for this. So I don’t think you’ll get the answer you want.

Executive summary: this would be such a flagrant bad behavior and (most likely) involve some very influential players. The devs probably don’t and shouldn’t have a script with a prescribed punishment. What happens will take a lot of discussion, will need to be carefully explained to the community, and after it happens there will probably be code changes and new rules that make everyone unhappy. So it’s best if we optimistically assume this doesn’t happen.

More detail:

What counts as “a guild cheating”? If one member finds an exploit that converts every match into a win, should the entire guild be penalized for that member knowing? Two members? Three members? What if they do it in isolation and no one else in the guild knew they were doing it? What if it comes out they’ve been doing it for a long time, across several guilds? Should punishments be retroactive?

OK, so some cheating is individual, not the guild. What if that individual is the guild leader? What if they encouraged the 2-3 other people in their guild to do it? That makes it different, right? But punishing the guild still hits 27 people who we can’t prove were in on it. Even though they didn’t cheat, they’re going to be tainted in the community’s eyes for being a part of a guild that did.

So I think in cases like that there will be very quiet and very individual punishments. This is a case where I agree with not publicly mentioning who cheats, because it has a high chance of labeling people who were innocent. That’s probably unsatisfying for a lot of people. If we weren’t so prone to breaking out torches and pitchforks I’d sympathize.

The case I think you are REALLY asking about is one where there’s Trump levels of bad opsec going on. Something like, “The guild leader used guild chat to coordinate the exploit.” It’s hard for the devs to go on things like Discord screenshots because:

00%20AM

But sure, let’s assume we have this level of stupidity going on and wide-scale cheating. At that point, even the people who don’t do it are culpable because they should’ve reported it. I’m pretty sure that guild would get zapped off the planet if the cheating were this widespread. There’s really no other solution.

It’s the in-betweens that are more likely, though. What if it’s 4 people? What if it’s 5? What if it’s 20, but there’s not really any evidence anyone else in the network knew? What if it’s all members of one guild, but the leader of the guild network and all the other guilds claim ignorance?

It’s best if we let that get handled if and when that happens instead of demanding GoW sets up a penal code in advance.

Also: you’re really, really, really worried about what happens to people who cheat and the people connected to them. Way more worried than anyone else, I think.

I’m worried about the real impact that cheating has on GoW. More should care. Not that I should care less about it. I see cheating as no different than a bug that needs to be addressed and fixed. Whether that bug effects a player immediately or down the road.

These questions may not be actually hypothetical. But to avoid violating community guidelines. It’s best to keep them hypothetical in nature.

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Well, if hypothetically speaking it happen…
download%20(5)
And nothing will happen :3

Ps:good to be on ps4 for once lol

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Random off topic Question by me. But why don’t PS4 Players just call it the “4”…Xboxone the “Neo” and Switch users the “:herb:”. :wink:

Well, let’s talk hypothetically then. I’ll leap to a few conclusions.

If you found a flaw in GoW that allows someone to perform better in GW than they should, you objectively should report it to the devs. I think, objectively, they should respond to that, even if they can’t tell you when they plan to do something about it. At that point I think your objective responsibilities end.

The stakes aren’t high here. This is a game people play for fun. There are no cash prizes. It’s all ego. The consequences of some guild cheating are that some numbers get shifted around differently in a database somewhere. The only paychecks and livelihoods at stake are the devs’. Nobody dies if GW has an exploit. Nobody even really loses their job… unless the exploit is widely known. Hence there are more risks to a public announcement than silence.

So maybe they don’t give a flip. Or maybe they’re working on a solution but don’t feel obligated to tell you when. Or maybe the solution is really difficult and they don’t have a timeline. Or maybe they think it’s difficult enough to pull off no one’s doing it. Maybe they’re investigating and want to see if the cheaters are spreading information so they can bust as many cheaters as possible at once. Or maybe there are actually multiple exploits they’re tracking, and they don’t want to let it be known they’re wise so they can catch more people. There are a lot of good reasons why you might’ve reported a serious flaw to them and received no response.

If you go full black hat and stream yourself using the exploit or dump all your proof, the game’s going to fall apart. There will be drama at an unprecedented level, lots of harassment targeted at you, and lots of harassment targeted at the devs. If they don’t know how to fix it, they’re screwed. They’re going to have to do something hasty, which is just as likely to open worse doors.

Even if you go grey hat and try to quietly announce you know there is an exploit and explain the extent of it without directly implicating anyone, a lot of the above happens.

It’d be most responsible to keep badgering the devs privately about it and get an answer with finality. Don’t play games in public and suggest you hypothetically know about an exploit that’s ongoing. When you act coy and sly like that, someone who is cheating and trying to figure out if they’re being detected knows you’ve detected them. If their next question is, “Did AWR tell the devs?” you’ve answered it for them. So now they know to lay low and avoid that exploit for a little while. If they were collaborating with other people, they’re going to tell everyone to lay low. If the devs were investigating, all the evidence is going to dry up. Then it’s going to look like you’re making things up.

So, hypothetically speaking, I think it’s best to be kind of quiet and keep your cards close to your chest. If you legitimately think there is widespread GW cheating then I can’t blame you for playing a few cards. You’re going to upset people and make life harder for the devs. People are going to threaten to quit the game then spend 800 gems on some goofy event. We’ll get a quick, hasty patch that opens an even bigger exploit.

Short story: you probably don’t have all of the information. Don’t go black hat, and keep in mind even well-intentioned grey hats have still caused massive casualties with their reveals. If you think the competitive integrity of GoW has been permanently breached and the devs are not going to address it, the most responsible and impactful thing you can do is move on to another game. The worst thing you can do is stick around anyway and fan the flames.

And stop letting the cheaters know you’ve detected their patterns. It tells them when their exploits are obvious and they need to find better ones.

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Oh, also, hypothetically:

I also want to point out my original points are still valid. “One person used a clear exploit” is very different from “a guild leader encouraged every member to use the exploit”. One shouldn’t punish the entire guild unless it’s clear the guild was culpable.

I’m not going to lie. Out of the 120 lines you wrote. I read 20 of them.
The players involved in this possible scenario have done exactly what the devs want us to do.
So now we just sit and wait pretty much. But… Things are happening from dev to player that is making a large number of players confused.
So I posted a thread to get clarification from the devs. The forums are a place of knowledge and way to interact between player and developer.

I can’t help but feel like this is yet another thread. Where I have an issue that I would like resolved. And you @Slypenslyde have an issue with me having an issue?
I don’t use the forums to have a witty conversation with you man. If you don’t like my posts. Then simply don’t read them. You feeling compelled to have an opinion about almost every opinion I have on here then that is on you man.
If you feel this thread isn’t relevant to your day to day dealings with GoW then great. This isn’t for you it seems.
Right now it’s possibly only an issue in bracket 1. But nothing stops it from potentially being an issue in other brackets.
If the devs answer my questions, great. If they don’t, then I’m not going to badger them about it. It’s not that serious bro. When I don’t know something. I ask a question to find out. That’s it. 🤷

Darn tootin’ I have an issue. Nice touch telling me my post was too long. It turns out “you use too many words” is my issue. It makes it hard to see what you mean. Here’s what I think your post meant.

I have reported an instance of cheating. I submitted evidence and waited a week with no response. Neither the individual nor their guild has been punished. I would like to know if any punishment is pending.

But I already know the dev answer. You might be a customer, but you’re not their boss. They have openly stated, on several occasions, that their only real public policy is they don’t answer questions like this.

You do have standing in the community, which means you have value. But your role as of late has been to discourage spending and engagement, which works against them. Trying to cash in your credit won’t work very well, especially since the policy likely comes from their boss, who doesn’t have as close a relationship to you.

The only thing you can do to force an answer out of them is to deliver what’s missing in your post, “This is what will happen if I don’t get what I want.” But you don’t have a lot of leverage. You can’t threaten to spend less money than the “nothing” you claim to spend. You could threaten to recruit fewer people for the game, but I bet you don’t do that kind of recruiting. You could threaten to leave, but with the most possible respect I think “their boss” doesn’t care enough about you, individually, to allow them to break policy.

So, in short: this thread is going to fizzle and you’re not going to get a lot of information. It’s possible by taking it public you’ve disrupted the investigation that’d be necessary to enact the kind of punishment you expect. It’s just going to create drama.

🤦
Any investigation in this hypothetical is already over. I know this because of things done privately… But you don’t know. Because it was done privately.
I’m a big fan of transparency. The devs have policies that elude that they don’t feel the same way.
There is not a single Question that I asked in the OP that has anything to do with how they identify cheaters or Exploits. It’s 100% about what happens after. Supposedly, a rule was made, a rule was broken… But no one knows the repercussions of it besides the devs.

If you want to continue to try and push this thread into something negative or more devious than it actually is. Then I can’t stop you. But I’m definitely done playing with you today. Be well. :grinning:

I mean OK, but it doesn’t add up.

  • You know what happened.
  • You said you don’t know what the devs did in response.
  • You demanded the devs announce what they do in this situation you can’t explain.
  • You claim you already know what the devs did in response.

Three of those bullet points make sense together.