How do you feel about "random"

This is not really a question to flood developers but rather help myself understand some of your viewpoints on the key aspects of games, and GoW in particular.

The question stays. How do you feel about “random”

What I mean are the % chance of abilities and traits to trigger and the random amount of turns for debuffs… Especially these two things in general. Not really from balance perspective but rather enjoyment.

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When the time comes to consider “match-3” games, i have always been a fan of the Puzzle Quest series, up to Gems of War.
Always been my #1 games.
So why not all the other 1000s games out there, including the popular Beweled and Candy Crush, etc etc?
Strategy over luck.
Most match-3 games are just: make matches, and hope for random luck.

So, i guess the random element is the part of the game i like less.
“Random”, as you call it, usually frustrates me more then anything.


I like random. If I didn’t like random I wouldn’t play this game. Even the most basic aspect of the gameplay (the match-3 system) is heavily based on RNG - how will your starting board look? what will fall from the sky when you match? etc.

The other random things you mentioned are the same. The game is already so heavily based on RNG in every aspect, be it mana surges or key openings, that removing certain spell effects just because they’re random doesn’t make any sense. If you don’t like random - go play chess or something.


The question isn’t to choose between black or white, but how grey it should be.

If you like random, how about a troop with “50% chance to win the match on the spot and 50% chance to do absolutely nothing” spell? It’s obviously absurd, and a line has to be drawn somewhere. The deck-building aspect and turn-based nature of the game clearly demand some amount of strategy too.

There is such a thing as good randomness: things that are nice if they go our way, but usually not devastating if they don’t. Board state, mana surge, damage split, debuff duration, etc, all fit this because even the worst outcomes are still technically beneficial and leave enough breathing space to recover over time.

On the other hand, adding or removing a troop from the board is too significant an event to be decided on a coin flip. Things like summoning and resurrection traits, random Devours, Death Mark, etc, would be less frustrating to play and play against if they were conditional.

Those are the lines I draw anyway.


i like random when its not extreme,

in cases when the stakes are high i try to take a team that removes the said risk (impervious) since too much risk is not so enjoyable to me when it comes with unfixable consequences (gw)

i know id have more fun if there was pity timer for the stronger rng effects (ensuring the effect will stop or start happening eventually if it goes too far above average)

It has been a great discussion, so far.
Thank you very much for your opinions.

Just to clarify, I wasn’t really implying anything. It was just that I had this question in mind whole years ago and was wondering… Some people I met were literally against it. They hated it.
… But after analyzing some amount of time - a lot of people around me came to a conclusion that without the random aspect - games might become boring.

That’s why I brought up this question, since RNG is heavily involved in this game. I personally do not dislike it. I’m kind of neutral concerning the question. I’ve loved the game ever since the beginning because of it’s nature of strategy, tactics and countering and the randomness just kind of goes with it.

Can you imagine what comes after devour? What power creep lies ahead…

Its the new Spell: Coin Flip! - Only available behind Guild Wars, and only if your #1 can you have it.

Coin Flip

  • 50% chance to devour all 4 members of the other team OR cleanse, barrier and heal all enemy troops to full

RNG is a matter of life in any match-3 game. What made PQ, PQ2, and GoW stand out for me was the implementation of % shifting mechanics. PQ had spells, GoW has troop spells and abilities. All of these mechanisms are designed to allow the player to in a variety of ways, subtle to obtuse, bend RNG in their favor.

That is why I enjoy these games so much more than any other match 3. I know that I can build a board manipulation deck and never have to bend to the whim of the sky drop. I will make my own luck! :wink:

Lately, with the resurgence of Devour and DM to prominence, given the grief that a GW loss costs your opponent, it has caused people to feel the sting of UNAVOIDABLE RNG once again in a very REAL and MEANINGFUL way. This is both a good and a bad thing. Good because it means people still care about this game to their core! Bad because when they care about something this deeply and feel that there is no recourse or solution it can lead to people jumping ship.

My bit of advice if I may be so bold is as follows:

The GoW you know and love is not gone. It has NEVER left. Enjoy GW for what it is, a deeply dangerous and deadly duel between Veterans and Master of RNG Manipulation that both want to win. Embrace the highs of victories and find solace in the remorse of defeat knowing that… TRULY… there was NOTHING you could have done. The dice were tossed and your number came up that time. I am a competitor and it is very difficult for me to take my own advice but I have forced myself to and GW has remained an enjoyable experience for me because of it. After those 5 battles, just 5 battles, you can return to the solo RNG manipulating, dominating GoW game you know and love! :wink:


@AeroCloud do you ever have anything to say that isn’t sarcastic and negative?

Why yes I do!

I have said many good things about the game, even referred many players whom have all quit due to some of the reasons I have been so vocal about on the forums.

Is it such a bad thing that I will give my opinions on how I feel about the modes of a game? Should I just straight up quit instead of trying to give the Dev’s a chance to hear some peoples frustrations?

Where is the happy point with you? Zero complaints? Only praising?

You will never get the best product possible if people never tell the truth about it.

Everyone is different and what makes you happy, might not make me happy. However if we were both happy, then some new mode comes in and makes 20%+ of your player base unhappy. I would hope as a Dev you would want to hear why and help try to relieve these issues. When players dismiss others “issues” because they aren’t an issue to them, that is another problem in itself.

Please have respect for peoples opinions even if you don’t agree with them.


I don’t really understand why you’d play this game if you don’t have some appreciation for random. It’s a match 3 game and randomness basically defines the genre. The entire point of the genre is to try to accomplish an objective with despite the randomness.


I have no problem with ppl who differ in opinion from me and i agree about constructive criticism. However do you honestly think the devs are unaware that some ppl hate the rng and gw? Do you think that the only way to get change is by constantly kicking the crap out of a dead horse?

And btw…

This is not constructive. This is only insulting…

My predictions are insulting?

I love RNG based games, but when RNG becomes the sole factor of a strategy game, you have lost the strategy.

Devour and Deathmark are the 2 spells that RUIN what I call “strategy”. I have voiced my opinion about this ample times in the past and seems to get ignored like it doesn’t matter.

So my choice to continue to have fun in the game was to avoid PvP. This helped me continue having fun in the game.

Now a new mode GW is being forced down my throat, I say forced because I wont be in a top guild to get legendary tasks etc unless I compete in this mode. Now this mode is just PvP on steroids! You get the worst of the worst.

If they removed Devour and Deathmark from the game, I wouldn’t likely hate GW as much as I do.

The major issues I have with GW are the fact I’m forced to play 6 days a week, cant have a weekend off. If I’m working out of town, or out of a Cell/Wifi Area, I’m screwed. Well more like my Team is screwed.

So I have suggested many times:

  1. Allow all fights on any day at any time (this allows for flexibility with players, not everyone has unlimited time or access of time)
  2. Either remove devour/deathmark, or the DEV’s set the defense teams for the 5 battles per day. This will eliminate the repetitive nature of the worst and cheesiest defenses over and over.
  3. Reduce the required battles down to 20 or 25 members, and if more than that number participate, only take the top X of those battles and drop the weakest ones.

Those are pretty simple changes, which will go a long way in improving the game.

Edited Below:

Additional suggestions that weren’t removing devour/death-mark but suggestions on how to semi-balance them.

  1. Limit 1 devour per battles on enemy team (Regardless of how many devour troops/spells/percentages)
  2. Limit 1 death-mark kill per battle on enemy team (Deathmark becomes useless after 1 troop dies from it)

to be honest, on offense, i didn’t like it. i prefer something definite to plan my action ahead.

to be more honest, on defense, i love it. put some chaos into the game. give somebody else a little headache and scare. like some team i often faced. :grin:

This is pretty much how I feel, and @Tifa phrased it very nicely. I don’t mind RnG when there is the possibility for skill to mitigate it. I like playing poker which is a luck heavy game, but skill is still a significant factor. However, I wouldn’t put money down on a game of War, where luck is the only deciding factor. For the same reasons I prefer a game like Monopoly or Risk compared to something like Game of Life, because your choices influence where luck can really play a role, even though the dice/wheel are still prominent factors.

My biggest problem with RnG is actually how poorly humans understand it and handle it. Have a bad run, and the game must be rigged, and no amount of explanation or proof can convince them otherwise. I’ve learned to separate those who don’t understand RnG (yet) from those who CHOOSE not to understand it, and just ignore the latter.


@AeroCloud my friend, you need some sunshine in your life. gw isn’t that bad. there are many ways to make both pvp and gw easier.

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This is insulting pimpin… To claim that i only win because the dice rolled in my favor and i had absolutely nothing to do with it is an insult to me

Every win or loss is partly luck sure… But its more than just that

If its as you say only a “coin flip” why does anyone play? Where is the point WHY NOT JUST FLIP A COIN AT YOUR TABLE OVER AND OVER?

So please dont condescend to me anymore with your 100% luck accusations and calling your coin flip a “prediction”


I can beat any team, I had a streak of over 1200 wins at one time, the problem isn’t winning/losing.

The problem is when Strategy has been “exchanged” for RNG. I loved PQ, PQ2 and even the early GoW. Where battles went back and forth for many turns. You had to decide what gems to choose, when to choose them.

Today, I have to play way differently. I now pray to the RNG gods that the opponent doesn’t accidentally fill his 1 troop up and that troop doesn’t get its turn to eliminate 1 or more of my un-hit full strength troops. Its like why do we have damage spells, why do we have skulls? Lets just have 2 full teams of devour going against each other and the winner of RNG is who wins.

Seriously? Who wants to play a “Strategy” game that is decided by a majority of luck? This game used to have more strategy. Where did it go?

I could (and have) type several paragraphs on the subject but instead I’ll just briefly go over my own, personal design philosophy on when “random” should be implemented.

  1. Random should never have more influence on the outcome of any situation than decisions. Decisions need to feel like they matter.
  2. Random that is so extreme as to determine the outcome of a certain situation should be either recoverable or avoidable.
  3. Random should not progression gate more than a tiny amount.
  4. Random should not be able to be circumvented/rapidly cycled by some extra-game method (eg., save scumming)

All four of these things I feel like GoW is kind of tipping on the precipice. My decisions do feel like they matter if I use teams that can compelely avoid RNG kills from firing, and if they do, they are only unrecoverable sometimes. Mythics are in the realm of “too random” for progression purposes, but right now all you miss out on is potentially 150 gold per day on a few kingdoms and not massive amounts of stats (yet). We don’t have save scumming in GoW, but we do have explore hunts where the troops can be shuffled by entering the difficulty menu.

In regards to GoW specifically, I like the “predictable AI” because it allows me to avoid the big, game breaking RNG casts of the enemy team, which are only sometimes recoverable. I’m fine with the game in this state. The board itself is still RNG, so no two games are exactly the same. Despite what some people say, it can be challenging to try to keep control of the AI’s moves throughout the entire game without a “looping” team.