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Goblins should be 50% extra turn not guaranteed

As more and more Goblins come out, and the ones we already have, the whole “extra turn” thing remains incredibly broken, especially with Orpheus medals where a player can run 3x of them and have 3 10% chances at the beginning of each of their turns to cleanse all of their troops. This makes things like Snap Freeze useless, because not only is there already a chance for it to fall off, but now there’s three chances to cleanse it as well. But the looping has gotten absurd. The really broken ones are simply too powerful.

  • King Gobtruffle: hits all enemies, makes 16-24 green/brown gems, and he uses green mana so he refills himself and another ally. Countered heavily by Submerge, if you can manage to Submerge all your troops before the looping starts. Also helps if all your troops are immune to both poison and disease, as it cuts down the gem creation closer to 16 from 24.

  • Stringfiddler: Silences an enemy and explodes gems. Also creates a leafstorm right at the start of battle (and these override your own storms unless it’s something that starts at the beginning of your turn). Ensures that when the looping ends, you can’t cast anyway! Good to have all your troops immune to Silence as well as Disease and Poison now.

  • Norbert’s Turnip: Before this weapon came out, there was at least the reliance that once the enemy hero cast, you’d get your turn, maybe. But now with Turnip, it makes 24 Green and Red gems and gives an extra turn! Woohoo! This one obviously can’t be dodged by Submerge and the boosted damage (extra 24) quickly adds up. The green mana generation easily refills King Gobtruffle and Stringfiddler (and King Gobtruffle in turn refills your hero).

  • Toadsqueezer: A lot of players run this one because of the red gem generation from Norbert’s Turnip. Toadsqueezer fills a couple of niches. First, it’s another single target damage source, except it gains 1 magic every time an ally casts a spell (and that happens A LOT with these looping teams), so it’s immune to Submerge defense. Second, it always explodes 4 random gems, as opposed to Stringfiddler exploding the color of the enemy. Third, if it doesn’t explode gems, it enchants all allies, and because of the crazy mana generation on this team from gem creation and explosions, being able to be 2 mana away from casting on the next turn, if the enemy gets a turn, is incredible.

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Did you lost a Guild War match against Goblins today?

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I first read the 50% extra turn suggestion in this thread: Balancing Suggestions and Ramblings

But I believe it was also brought up again by some others when the last delve came out because those troops have only a 30-40% chance of an extra turn. I know Goblins have this “niche” of always gaining an extra turn, but when your entire team is Goblins and you effortlessly refill mana, it becomes tiresome to play against. That’s why they nerfed mana gained from explosions years back. What they didn’t do was combat mana gained from mana generation. Now instead of Goblins just exploding gems, they’re creating gems (King Gobtruffle and Norbert’s Turnip) which isn’t affected by that nerf.

The counter is freeze, which isn’t viable against Medal of Orpheus or in Guild Wars weeks where color restrictions severely limit your ability to freeze enemies.

You did not answer my questions, but decided to defend your OP which I strongly disagree with. Then I assume you lost against a Goblin team in Guild Wars today. Sorry, but I don’t think a Goblin nerf will ever be necessary, and I doubt we will see a nerf based on a few Guild Wars losses. In all other modes you do win at least 9 out of 10 matches against them - if not more. Also they are quite playable and fun to use/mess around with.

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Yes I was matched up against a Goblin team with today being red. I just didn’t get a single move in after their looping started, even with flash freeze. I don’t see the relevance of your question though… I wouldn’t be posting about it if I crushed them or didn’t play against said team. Events in games always trigger discussions, that’s how it works.

I too don’t think we will ever see a nerf to Goblins guaranteed extra turn. I think it’s built into them so much that it would be impossible to remove. It would be a worse move than Sunspear change (which was reverted days later).

There are only two counters to looping: silence and freeze, and both of them get cleansed from Medal of Orpheus.

So I think the main problem is Medal of Orpheus because it can stack with itself and when it triggers, it triggers for all troops, not just one random troop.

This is all you needed to say, and what I think you should have started with. People respond surprisingly well to rational arguments, regardless of whether or not they agree! I’m not a fan of how you tried to trivialise the request and make fun of OP.

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I see this team in pvp a lot.

Once I beat it with Cedric team with frostmage instead of thief.

Just don’t bother to build a freeze team against it.

it seems that only valid strat against golbins is start your own loop and kill at least 1 or 2 before they start looping, that way, their loops will be ending earlier

as OP mentioned goblin team, another option also seen quite often i goblin shaman, which uses brown and creates green, which makes him grate teammember for grobtrufle.

I also noticed i was able to kill most of goblin teams using a queen beetrix team with stone traittree hero ( monk/titan) with mountain crusher in front.

“Use this specific counter, or you lose”
I find this only acceptable if

  • It’s explicitly a puzzle
  • You have infinite retries and/or undo
  • You have garanteed acces to the required resources to set up this counter
  • There is no (or very little) randomness involved

As a casual free user (never scout) these goblin teams but also certain other teams make me resent the game and/or the player who made this lame team.

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No thank you. All that your proposal would accomplish is: My goblins get zero extra turns, while the ai and rng streakiness always gets extra turns.

I’ll take my chances as is. I haven’t used Kerberus in over two years. No me gusta rng.

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If you guys ever seen me rage when I go up against goblins you would never want them nerfed. I get incredibly childish when I play video games. When things don’t go my way I will start rolling on the floor screaming. One time it got so bad my wife was upstairs and she said it sounded like a bunch of farm animals were fighting.

Is it embarrassing? Yes, but it’s kind of funny telling you guys about it now.

With all that said, screw the goblins and their stupid little extra turns. And you know what else? Norbert can take his dumb turnip and choke on it.

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No! Goblins is best! Humans think they sooo smart with their big heads and fancy forks!

Goblins rule, humans drool!

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The solution is to make Medal of Orpheus function like the Medal of Anu – unstackable. It will still be a good medal, and just not “overpowered”. It’s already quite too easy to obtain in explore anyhow.

Medal of Orpheus is more rng bs. I used 3 last war for one battle. When I never cleansed the entire battle, I never used them again.

I’m just not a fan of Goblins in general, and that’s because they do things too well when combined with their extra turn.

  • The extra turn is guaranteed
  • They can create gems with impunity because of this. They could set up a perfect 4/5 match for the enemy, but they get an extra turn to use it themselves.
  • Even if they don’t set up 4/5 matches, they will create enough 3 matches or explode gems enough to refill someone’s mana
  • Then that troop also gets an extra turn AND their ability

Take King Gobtruffle for example. He does damage to all enemy troops and creates a mix of green/brown gems. He only uses green mana. Even if he makes a horrendous mix of gems, he still gets an extra turn.

Stringfiddler. He silences an enemy, then explodes a bunch of gems. Even if the gems fall and set up a terrible board, he’s still silenced an enemy AND gets an extra turn.

These “extra turns” for most troops wouldn’t be useful if they were being looked at by themselves. For instance, if you only had one troop with extra turn, it wouldn’t be that great, because you can’t loop indefinitely. But when all the “extra turn” troops are generating mana for each other AND damaging/debuffing the enemy, it’s a really unfun experience.

In some cases, you can just sit back and do nothing because the enemy team loops until you die. There is nothing you can do. Your only moves are the very first opening moves and if it’s not perfect, you lose.

Goblins are irritating enough to play against in guild wars and often in pvp. Honestly it’s usually faster to quit and start a new match than to watch them peck apart my team once they get started. But all of my favorite teams involve at least one goblin and I’d be sad to lose them in general play functioning as they do. That’s why I’d rather see those two modes specifically changed over the units in the games and how they function.

PVP:
Introduce “penalty weeks.” Like bonus weeks with whatever kingdom exists, impose a stat loss for people who keep static defenses and leave them sitting constantly. -10% stats per week that defense unit/weapon has been used consecutively. This might be difficult to implement but if it could, it would get people thinking outside of the box of cookie cutter defenses and stale metas. It would make pvp much more interesting and shake things up. We might find stronger defenses than we were using and if used in GW it would possibly make all of us who hate it hate it a bit less. As it stands, I see no benefit to testing new defense teams and combinations because there is no penalty for leaving it up. Possibly even changing the encounter rate for people who have changed their defenses showing up more frequently than those who have left orbweaver sitting since last year.

Guild Wars: “vote/rotating banning.” The day before guild wars starts, everyone votes on a troop and a weapon they want “banned” from GW within their bracket that month. The winner would be flagged and made public with a small banner when you open the game on Monday. When putting together a defense/offense team, using that troop or weapon would cost points from your score rather than earning them. This would, again, be difficult to implement, but if possible would cause people to think outside the box. It would show which guild is actually a top competitive guild in their bracket and which ones are aware that Orbweaver and Goblins have solid odds of taking over a battle. If not a vote, the devs could also just set a random/rotating ban or bonus that is themed to the kingdom of the week. “Use X kingdom to gain bonus guild wars points” or something similar. I’d love to see the creativity people would have to use to squeeze Mongo onto an attack team more than I’d like to see 5 goblin battles in a single day. Guild wars is the same every month and every month I dread it because of how seriously every guild seems to take it. I’m not a competitive person so this mode is a huge buzzkill for me and is usually my least played week every month.

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