I dont think there is a reason to win on those battles, Its more beneficial to loose and then have a revenge battle. So transmuting teams are fine with that.
[quote=“Razlath, post:60, topic:2129, full:true”]
It isn’t a goblin problem, goblins are just easy for the AI to run, widely available, and easy / fun to play. Thus they are quite a bit more popular. Lots of players don’t have the resources to maintain two decks right now. The goblins work well on invade and defense so they make a good choice for leveling. I know I shelved my other decks when 108 hit as I need to focus all my attention on the gobbies to get them leveled and traited up.[/quote]
It is probably the reason why they are so popular.
I don’t think they need to be nerfed. Once players have gathered enough resources there will probably (at least I hope so) be a wider variety of teams.
But it is so boring to see so many goblins currently.
Dont think so. There are a lot of high level players that use gobbs. They certainly dont lack cards and probably have legendarily too, its just that gobbs are easier and are even more likely to beat you since they dont take long to charge.
True - and noticeable - how many other well-built teams could get a full type bonus and a full kingdom bonus?
For many people it clearly is, hence this thread exists. The thread was started by a lv1000 player (@esslee) - it’s not just that they’re hard to beat.
If they weren’t so far ahead of any other team, you’d have other viable options. The sad thing seems to be that there aren’t many, due to combination of (1) Gobbos being relatively over-powered and benefitting from lots of good effect/bonuses that other good teams cannot get/cannot unlock as quickly and (2) lack of other troop type builds so accessible, i.e. many more troops needed to add variety to the meta.
In the short term, 4 legendary builds will seem inferior - even those of us with every troop will not be able to get legendaries up to mythic and all traits unlocked. Gobbos were already strong and popular, and being only commons and rares, can be easily unlocked faster.
Ascension part isn’t true - a common troop going up to mythic has ascended five times and had five extra stat increments (as well as the levels 16-20). A legendary troop going to mythic only gets one stat increment from ascending (as well as the levels 16-20). Yes, legendaries had better stats to begin with, but suddenly a mythic goblin can (relatively easily be obtained) with stats at least as good.
Let’s take an example - compare a common Goblin with the terrifying Kerberos, at level 20, both Mythic, both with all my lv10 kingdom bonuses.
- Goblin - Attack 21, Hit Points 51 - spell deals 10 damage and an extra turn for 6 mana
- Kerberos - Attack 21, Hit Points 49 - spell deals 12 damage, small chance of OHKO, for 16 mana
No one will be getting a Mythic Kerberos with all traits any time soon. Everyone with decent resources can get a Mythic Goblin with all traits, either already or foreseeably soon. Same for the rest of the squad, compared to other builds.
My main points still:
- Gobbos are a bit over-powered in themselves, not too bad, their spells are a bit under-costed for those extra turns, but clearly better than most at same rarity
- Gobbos can build a balanced team with some board control, extra turns, decent colour spread, high kingdom and type bonuses, which no other in the meta can get near, and never so easily accessible (Dragons are the only ones close - better for spell power, most stats, colour spread - but don’t get kingdom bonus and run far more slowly)
- they were tricky when I first played the game on its first release (Zaejin quest line was harder than most because of it) and they’ve got lucky with every major bit of content added working in their favour
- I feel they need some minor balancing (nerfing, I guess), but most importantly we need to see more troops adding more diverse/accessible builds that can get decent bonuses
I trust the devs will deal with it in due course, just hope we all have the patience to deal with it ourselves in the meantime.
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How does matchmaking work when doing invades? seems there should be some system to prevent lopsided fights.
My team:
Skeleton, level 18, 1 trait unlocked
Skeleton, level 18, 1 trait unlocked
Aziris, level 17
Green Slime, level 15
Not exactly a fair fight versus 4 mythic level 20 goblin types with all 3 traits for each. I just closed the game.
Incorrect assumption. I have precisely two decks with all lvl 15 cards in them. The first receives no bonuses and I haven’t played since 107 dropped because it was basically gutted as viable in that patch (it will come back once I have the global kingdom bonuses locked down). The second is my gobbies who I had mostly leveled (as a joke defense team that always lost) when 107 dropped and could quickly finish off. I was building new ones when 108 hit and some are getting close to viable, but none are fully leveled. My gobbies are my best deck because they have the levels, no other reason. Any other deck I would first have to catch up to 15 and then work through the post 15 levels. The gobbies are already there, so it only makes sense to work forward with them until I get them settled and then go back to my others.
Which is why I said “of equal rarity”. The post was long enough and detailed explanation of a completely different problem didn’t seem justified. The commons getting more stats for ascending than the legendaries has nothing to do with goblins (my whitehelm deck will most likely receive an equal boost being mostly commons and rares) so I cut the long explanation and left the “of equal rarity” to remain factual and concise.
This is the main point I agree with all of you on (and have said so). I believe I even went as far as saying you could add +2 to +3 to all marauder zaejin troop spell costs and be in the ballpark for a decent balance fix. I would start with +2 because +4 seems like way too much +3 may actually end up being right, but baby steps and all. If that didn’t make it into one of these posts, I apologize, I may have thought it and got distracted prior to posting it.
The point I take issue with is this concept that goblins are the only ones capable of getting decent team bonuses. That was the main point in the original post as well… Look at these ridiculous goblins and their stats. Forget that most of the stats come from global bonuses anyone can get. Do you really think the adjusted stats if they got no kingdom/type bonuses would be that much better to face? -10 life -2 attack? Seriously, it would change nothing. And that would require making them the only kingdom with no bonus at all.
As an example of other bonuses, I have a Khaziel dwarf team that ends up with +2 armor and +12 life. With mostly level 10ish cards it wins about 20% of its defends (it is boring to play though). My whitehelm divine deck ends up with +4 armor, +4 life, +1 attack, +1 magic. Neither of those are bad bonuses. And the whitehelm deck works ridiculously well with itself. The AI can’t run it though, so your defense would be sketchy. It is probably the next deck I will level after the gobbies are done. I actually expect it to outperform them, but it isn’t as battle tested, so I stick with what I know works for now. The bonuses are out there, it is actually one thing I don’t consider that impressive about the gobbies. Nice, but nothing above what other kingdoms get.
-Razlath
Hey Guys,
Thought I drop in and give my 2 cents on what we’re considering. As of 1.0.8 with all the investment players go into creating a mythic troop and locking traits, we need to tread carefully when we handle balance.
So we’re not going to nerf goblins troops, at this stage. The issue is that if for example we try to hit goblin’s mana cost, then low level players (for many the Goblin is their best troop)- start to have more issues as they don’t have the Gem Masteries of a high level player to power him up quickly.
What we are discussing is buffing epic + legendary troops so they have more stats, while addressing the Zaejin Team Bonus to have more Attack and less Life.
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I remember someone mentioning in another thread to consider the idea of making the Marauder bonus only apply when you’re on the attack (similar to the Siege trait). That way newer players can still have a powerful team to use in PvP but not have it be so ridiculously strong in defense. Would also make sense lore-wise as Marauders would specialize in raiding and pillaging 
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Hip hip HOORAAAY! Amen to that.
If the situation gets worse you may consider the old suggestion to issue malus that is effective only on the defense team – on certain conditions.
All the complaints here are not about gobs people drive themselves but those on opposition.
In HOMM every week can bring some special global effect – GoW could have something similar transient effect. (I’d make it last 2 weeks and announced 1 week ahead to allow preparation.)
That was me, I’m someone. I’m famous!
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I’ve run into a couple goblin teams the last couple of days as I dive into the pvp arena. I hate them. The lower level teams I had gone up against I have been able to get ahead of their looping but I had a level 1000 defend and those guys ate me like lions at feeding time in the zoo. The annoying part is the extra turn each of them have.
Anyway you all know this. It’s why the thread got started. Lol.
Did you expect to consistently beat the lvl 1000 full evolved team from 200-ish?
Oh no. Not a chance. But I don’t know of a way to decline a defend. Had to try and see but I had no hopes at all going in. It ended just as expected. I just had another team level 245 I think. Slime and 3 goblin types. Not sure which now but they just went from one to the next repeating turns, make green mana, turning it purple, feeding the next in line. Very not fun.
But not unexpected. Just venting.
Just had that lvl1000 Goblin King at 20 Armor 84 Life. Yeee…
What I would do is figure a way to quantify the strength of a team. Something like:
[troop level] * [troop rarity modifier] * [trait modifier] = troop strength
[hero level / 50] * [hero weapon rarity modifier] = hero strength
team = sum of the 4 troops/heroes
Then make it so you only invade players with a defense no higher than 20% over your attack team strength.
Simple example:
common = 1
rare = 1.1
ultrarare = 1.3
epic = 1.5
legendary = 1.7
mythic = 2.0
1 trait = 1.5
2 traits = 2.0
3 traits = 3.0
An attacking team with level 18 epics with no traits = 18 * 1.5 * 1 = 27, for 4 troops = 108 points
A defending team with level 20 mythics with 3 traits = 20 * 2 * 3 = 120, for 4 troops = 480 points
So the weaker attacker would never face the team that would obliterate him, but as you build your team you face better and better defenders. Obviously the modifiers would require testing, but the idea is sound.
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I like the math. Definately well thought out. But I am a level 107 with no traits on my team and have beaten a level 455 defending team. They didn’t have those goblin buggers though. That is well over your 20% suggestion.
Depends on their team, it isn’t just hero level. In fact hero level only matters if you use the hero in team. Say for example you used your hero with an epic weapon, along with 3 level 18 legends with no traits:
[hero/50] * 1.5 = 2.1 * 1.5 = 3ish
18 * 1.7 * 1 = 30.6, and 3 of them so 91.8
So you could face that team I mentioned of 4 lvl 18 epics, but not the uber mythics.
In retrospect, the hero evaluation would need more work, maybe something like [15 + level/200] instead of [level / 50]
total team strength about 95.
Make the “under 20% difference” a sliding scale in “Settings” from Zero (meaning a team less than your score) to +200%, where a player can adjust for matches as they see fit 
Then you have the automatic dynamic matching as your team improves and player controlled matching as their experience and skills improve
For “incentive”, just have a base Glory reward of 2 per match and have it scale with the score difference (so on Zero you get 2 Glory per win, on 50% you get 3, on 100% you get 4, on 200% you get 6)!
Solves 2 requests with the one stone!!
7
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Doesn’t sound like something that will do a whole lot of difference. The problem seems to be that Zaejin troops worked well without team bonuses, without traits and without scaling to higher level. Now that naturally they too have all that, the scaling that made bad troops ok, made these amazing troops superamazing.
They’ll still be far more viable than anything else of the same rarity.
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All this goblageddon sounds quite amusing lol. Wish I could play with y’all on the pc. I only have a mac 