useless for the other classes
makes the other classes meaningless…in my opinion…
what is a 1200 card for if I can’t use it?
2 Likes
Welcome to the club buddy
1 Like
Other mostly useless classes and bad talent trees within bad classes need to be buffed, I agree.
9 Likes
This was the complaint from day 1 – that damned third trait, AND access to the Stone tree (Fortitude, etc).
Personally, I might change the third trait from inflicting 4 statuses on one opponent, to scattering 4 statuses across random opponents. It’s not enough, but it would at least help.
6 Likes
When guild wars comes back, how are you guys going to shut down doomed codex teams? Use obsidius to stun and Zuul goth to freeze?
Nerfing things in this game leads to more problems than it solves. If other classes can be buffed and brought closer to Elementalist, it would make the game better. The problem is that when most classes were introduced, many talents and traits were created before other troops and effects were brought into the game.
A perfect example of this was queen mab used to be the best way to freeze teams. Now? Yeah, just use Elementalist and shut down everything. There are too many troops and traits to go over to adjust everything to the power of Elementalist, so just accept it for what it is and use it to your advantage.
8 Likes
One problem all classes have is that the trees exist and often don’t make sense. Classes should have been individually curated in my opinion. The trees are kind of lazy, the best talents are often on the same level so you have to decide which to pick while other levels have totally useless stuff - and most level 100 talents, the hardest to achieve, are terrible.
But unless the devs are willing to fully overhaul classes I don’t see a good solution.
Nerfing things isn’t one.
14 Likes
Elementalist class - the least used of them all.
That doesn’t matter. No troop, weapon or class should be balanced for just one small game mode.
I’m not calling for a nerf or anything. I’m only saying that somthing that is usable in every mode should not be good for one mode and overpowered/broken/unbalanced for the rest of the game.
Honestly, I’m finding Nightweaver to be a decent class, just not against Elementalist in pvp. There really is only the one choice, op since before the official release.
3 Likes
And that’s why it’s so much easier to just nerf elementalist down near to everything else, rather than buffing everything else up to elementalist. You’d still need to buff some stuff, but one nerf is better than hundreds of buffs.
For some stuff, yeah. That just shows bad design in the new stuff, though.
But, elementalist? Pretty much everyone pointed out that it was OP from the moment it was introduced. It didn’t suddenly get broken way later by something else that got added, it was broken when it arrived.
1 Like
Conceptually, I agree with you, but I just think most of the classes are so very bad, that the easiest fix, in this case, isn’t the best one.
2 Likes
“And that’s why it’s so much easier to just nerf elementalist down near to everything else, rather than buffing everything else up to elementalist. You’d still need to buff some stuff, but one nerf is better than hundreds of buffs.”
No, nerfing whatever everyone uses just brings EVERYTHING down to a mediocre level over time. That level of brainless is how World of Warcraft, League of Legends, and most recently Diablo IV destroyed their populations, and removed the tiniest bit of competitive credibility they ever had. The first two games I mentioned were both the “biggest game in the world”, until of course some rocket scientist developer came along and said “it’s so much easier to just nerf this down near to everything else”. You don’t play whack a mole with whatever the community is using the most, you bring everything else up.
If theoretically Elementalist were nerfed, you’re just going to whine about frostmage because you end up frozen when the exact same team loops you and you end up frozen anyways. Then after frostmage is nerfed then what?
Kneejerk nerfing based on internet whining from bad players is never the answer. Especially when this “problem” isn’t new and can be countered if you have any clue how to play the game. They literally created a weapon that defeats it almost entirely. The people in the highest brackets in GW have had to deal with elementalist defenses for as long as elementalist has existed. This isn’t a problem, and certainly isn’t a problem worthy of a nerf.
3 Likes
We also need to stop implementing changes due to one mode. They ‘fixed’ PvP by nerfing Journey troop only to break Journey.
How many more Gems might the spend become in weekly events if Element was needed?
How much harder will those events be for the lower level players to potentially contribute?
8 Likes
Just use the class like everyone do. There are bigger problems in the game
And that’s where you lost me. I’m not talking about nerfing EVERYTHING down. I’m pointing to one thing, that stands out a mile from the crowd, that was openly called out by the community from the start, for being so broken that it left everything else in the dust.
You go round nerfing every little thing that’s slightly ahead of the rest, you’ll ruin the game. No argument here. But, one thing that’s massively OP and has no reason to be? And I say that, to distinguish it from stuff like the dragonite troops, which are incredibly hard to get, so deserve to be more powerful. But, all classes are equally available to players, so they should all be similar in power. There’s absolutely no reason for one to be WAY more powerful. So, given that it is, that’s the main thing to fix. Sure, buff the others too, but you can’t just buff everything up to the level of a super-overpowered option.
Exactly. Whack-a-mole is stupid. But that one tiger in the middle of the moles, THAT needs a whack. It doesn’t have to be hit so hard it’s just another mole, but it can get hit hard enough to be a mole-sized cat instead. (Not a perfect analogy, but I hope you get my point.)
And then you get Borderlands 3. Aside from the terrible writing, Borderlands 3 had a massive problem with balancing, because the devs had no idea what they were doing and tried to run the game like a live service game, so they kept re-balancing it every week by nerfing whatever the meta was (a terrible idea, as we agree), but also trying to buff anything underperforming. Sounded like a great idea on paper, but it just meant they kept buffing stuff up and making it overpowered and the new meta, and then had to juggle finding the balance for that with nerfing and buffing the other stuff. The end result was that they never got around to buffing all the hundreds of things that were underperforming, they just gave up and left most stuff way underpowered, with a handful of stuff way too buffed up by their changes and that became the new meta. They played whack-a-mole and also buff-a-mole, and it ruined the whole game.
Now, Borderlands 3 is dead, whereas Borderlands 2, which didn’t get that treatment, is still doing way better.
Long story short, GoW has too much stuff to buff, and the devs won’t spend the time accurately balancing all of it. Especially given there’s no money at stake for them. It’d be great if they did, but in reality it’s not going to happen. But, fixing the one thing that stands out in it’s category by an insane margin? That’s doable. If they do that and then also do some other buffs, even better. But nerfing the elementalist class is the easiest way to fix the massive imbalance right now.
Actually no. Frostmage isn’t a serious threat. It has a small chance to freeze, so while a looping team might eventually freeze the whole enemy team, it’s nowhere near as likely as elementalist, and all it does is freeze. It’s not entangling and stunning. So, for a start, that’s easy to counter, with troops that have immunity or cleanse traits (like beetrix) which are currently being obliterated by elementalist stunning them. And sure, assuming it freezes the whole enemy team, and they can’t get rid of it, a frozen team can still do stuff, like skull attacks and triggering their traits.
The biggest problem with elementalist isn’t the freezing, it’s the rapid freeze-stun-tangle-burn that leaves a troop almost entirely useless 90% of the time.
And frostmage isn’t immune to status effects to the same degree that elementalist is either, which is the second biggest problem with the class. So, If I stun a frostmage hero, it can’t freeze me. You can’t stun elementalist, or poison, disease, death mark, lycanthropy, devour, or freeze it. And it can gain a barrier every turn or submerge allies, meaning you either can’t damage it or you can’t deal area damage to the enemy team. Frostmage is immune to freezing and can submerge allies, and that’s it. Right now, even if you buffed it, it wouldn’t come close to the same level of threat as elementalist. It probably wouldn’t even be the next meta for looping teams, compared to some others.
But that’s not the point. I’m not saying to nerf everything that is meta. I’m saying nerf one thing that is super above the rest. After that, whatever’s the meta can stay the meta. Or whatever new stuff can be the meta. Just as long as the meta isn’t a mile ahead of everything else.
2 Likes
Sure, in general, game design should prefer “buffs” to “nerfs”, IF those terms are defined according to the variety of gameplay options a player can access. A.k.a. “buff” = more options, “nerf” = less options.
But there are a few caveats: One, buffing everything up to the standard set by the most powerful element IS a clear case of “power creep”. And two, if one element is so disproportionately OP that viable options for counterplaying it are limited to fighting fire with fire, then a targeted nerf to that element ironically expands gameplay options, and actually becomes a buff to the game as a whole.
And let’s be real here: When a top tier team gives you maybe 1 or 2 turns at most before it loops you to death, your options for counterplay are already super limited, BY DEFAULT. As analogies go, that’s less like chess and more like tic-tac-toe.
Sure, technically it makes sense that a powerful Troop should be difficult to acquire – but said acquisition is a one-time cost, when the benefits of using the troop are recurring. These two metrics are not (and can not be) entirely comparable.
2 Likes
I don’t care what anyone says, the facts prove that it’s not a good idea to use a different class in pvp because you will get killed. of course it’s good to get comments from members…but freeze and entangle is a lot of stun
1 Like
orecle(completely pointless)
class ecb…
almost all of them are unusable