Deeds - Discussion and Critique

Hopefully this contributes to the Discussion/Critique

I was about to post that screenshot. Did anyone else get Deeds of Stone II? Looks like we all did, guildies confirming.

1 Like

I agree with most of what you said, but I wanted to single this point out for further discussion. There is a fair bit of management/development research done on things like how to measure engagement, or monetization strategies and their effectiveness. I don’t subscribe to those journals, but I hope that Sirrian et al. do.

There almost surely are objective metrics available that quantify user engagement, and @Saltypatra is probably referring to these when she uses the term. It would be aces if she could provide a reference to the definition she and I+2 use (assuming it’s not proprietary or behind a paywall). I’m not opposed to reading papers, and it would be interesting to get a peek behind the curtain at some of the factors that an active development studio has to consider.


Yeah, we’ve been saying that for weeks. Now that you’ve finally noticed your mistake, how long will it take you to correct the numbers? :innocent:


I like your interpretation better than mine. *nod*

1 Like

Let’s see, we need 1020 colored deeds, the legendary tasks provides us with 6. Ignoring the extra road bump of pulling correct colors we’d need this task 170 times to get all kingdoms to 15. Once every second day to finish within a year. Looking at my collected Adventure Board data, I’ve received five legendary tasks within six weeks, less than one each week on average. And this legendary task would still have to pick the Deed task, out of four options, making it show up roughly once each month assuming fair distribution. So, going by this task alone, it’s 15 years to get the kingdoms done.

Incidentally, seeing the rewards for this legendary task also allows for a pretty good guess on the epic task reward, 3 colored deeds. If we would get this task each day we could also just complete all kingdoms within a year, except that we would be missing 102 imperial deeds.

It looks like the worst fears still hold, without paying cash the intended time to complete all your kingdoms really is at least 5 years, possibly more. It will also take deep into next year for F2P players to even get the first kingdom to level 15 due to the way colored deeds play out, unless some very generous amounts of extra deeds show up.

Looking at the numbers so far, I wouldn’t be surprised if Flash Offers come up frequently in two sizes, 10 (or possibly 3 of each) colored deeds for $5, 30 colored deeds + 3 imperial deeds for $20.


I do want to contribute in response to and as a respectful critique of @Starlite’s above post.

One thing that’s hard to measure is what adding 34 stats does to the game. I also think it’s important to note not every stat is equal. For example, without going datamine I feel like the “average” skull damage per troop is about 20, and ability damage maybe slightly higher (there’s a wider range due to boosts). This makes any adjustments to HP/Armor less than 20 far less valuable than an increase in multiples of 20.

If I count right, we’re talking about 5 magic, 7 attack, 11 HP, and 11 armor. The HP/Armor feels almost irrelevant outside of cases like Ketras. That’s less than one average skull hit, and any attack increases negate some of it. The 7 attack perks my ears but I feel like “skull team” already has a wide array of counters, even within the confines of Guild Wars. The 5 magic is what scares me the most because Magic has the widest spectrum of consequences.

In the end I wonder if those stats just aren’t relevant. I think if we pick “a year” as an imaginary time frame for leveling (based on noting the kingdom power upgrade was designed to take more than a year), and assume “6-8 months” is the pay-to-win rate of movement, it’s hard to imagine getting in scenarios where these stats are the deciding factor.

The bigger question is how does this affect a newbie in 2020’s prospect of catching up? They’ll get to accumulate deeds way before they are needed, but at the same time once they get towards the long midgame stretch they’ll start getting matched with/put in guilds that fight people who do have the bonuses. It’s notable these upgrades affect tribute. Very “rich get richer”. (that sometimes I get mixed up.)


They don’t… though…:man_shrugging:


Interesting points, @Slypenslyde.

I wonder how much those extra stat points really are perception versus reality. Of course, Smash did point out that the Team Bonuses and Hoard Bonuses also have an impact.

As far as people catching up, I think you’re right. But I also think that ship has probably sailed. Even just catching up on pets is almost impossible now. Factions are time-gated if you try to do them through daily delves (as opposed to hitting every Tuesday Event hard). New Mythics are coming out faster than you can earn Diamonds (max of 1 new Mythic every 6 weeks if you spend 350 Gems a week but no money). And the Diamonds to craft weapons are no more easily available.

I don’t know if the data would back this up, but it certainly feels like anyone new coming into the game now would do well to NOT have the attitude of a completionist.

1 Like

You made me double check, you’re right.

One reason I don’t like this feature is I eternally get kingdom power and kingdom level mixed up in my head. I can’t keep straight which one has which requirements, and which one has which bonuses, etc.

1 Like

Going by the data revealed so far, the P2W rate is one year, the F2P rate is somewhere around five years.

This might not be entirely incorrect. It’s a safe bet that kingdom power levels past 20 will require kingdom upgrade levels past 10. Will there be an additional increase to tribute chance and amount as part of the bonuses? Unknown, there’s definitely going to be something worthwhile in there though. Sure, we are still at least a year away from getting past power level 20, but if the F2P rate for upgrade levels stays at five years only paying players will obtain them.

1 Like

I wish everyone put effort and passion like this into things that matter
I say the same thing about those who memorize every sport stat too

What’s coming first? Merlantis Kingdom level 15 or your town turning into Merlantis? :exploding_head:

I still don’t understand why characters with a few extra stats are a big deal…

Challenges now at higher tiers have way highers stats than players. The same is true in Delves, especially the closer you get to 500… The same is true in Bounty. The same is true in Invasion, and in Raid, and in Tower of Doom. It seems the only mode this concerns people is in guild wars, but if you are in a good guild, you will have team suggestions, which should negate any stat boosts, which are going to be trivial in comparison to all the other event troops boosted stats.

I think people forget end game players need something to work towards, and this seems like a decent thing to have us working towards. New players will be fine. They have a large amount of content to keep them busy… Where as end game players have very little new content to look forward to…

1 Like

Problem is that we aren’t “working toward” anything, just “waiting for” the devs to be so kind as to give us adventure board tasks that include deeds that are useful.

Skill points seem like nothing important until you’re in a real guild wars bracket. Too bad anyone starting the game today will never find themselves welcome in a guild competing in a real guild wars bracket without spending money every time deeds and missing critical weapons show up as flash offers.

Not to mention that troops like ketras and ubastet rely on skill points to determine their damage. If that troops that’s being buffed relies on the stats of all troops on the team, every skill point adds 4 to the calculation, not 1.

It also isn’t just the extra Skill points. A 50% boost to stats in the kingdom’s associated delve is a big deal. There are a lot of stat boosts to be had from total renown.


Have you completed a faction to 500? And then done pure faction?

Yes, three of them, and only because of potions

1 Like

And needing potions or spending tons of gold on hoard level won’t change even if we all had 20 added to every stat.

+50% to hoard stats is more than +2skill points

Either i misread, or you updated your post. I’ll take +20 to stats, and the extra kingdom team bonus over what we have now.

Except in GW there already IS a stat discrepancy, when a lower ranked member fights a higher ranked one. If the Pay2Win scenario plays out like we fear, that discrepancy will be even greater. The main problem with GW is troop imbalance & empowered gem converters left,right & center. But that’s another topic.
Also, challenges are NOT a decent thing for end-gamers to work on because the rewards are pitiful for the time it takes to complete them. I stopped on all kingdom but one after Tier III. I’m pretty sure most players are the same. I’d try to get to Tier X today if a decent amount of color deeds were the rewards. I don’t need ingots. I don’t need shards. I don’t need diamonds. I don’t need traitstones. That’s 6 levels of rewards that do nothing for me.

But that’s available to all, and individual. It doesn’t effect you if I have a 50% bonus in a delve, nor does it effect me if you have a 50% bonus in a delve… I don’t get how it effects you if someone else has a kingdom bonus faster than you, or slower than you. It doesn’t matter in the end who gets there first, unless there’s a Power Orb to the person that gets there first.