# Consensus = Cheaters gonna cheat, trolls gonna troll (I give up)

#81

There is absolutely no way to prevent players from sharing accounts. My girlfriend could play for me at this very second, and the devs would see no difference. Now, she has no interest in playing and I don’t think any of the rewards are especially worth me looking around for somebody to take control of my Steam account, with multiple expensive games in it, just to play GoW, but the point remains.

The only alternative is to make PVP require sigils, which would run everybody away from this game in a heartbeat, or limit the amount of hours one can spend logged into the game, which would have the same effect.

Doing simple math like @Slypenslyde did is viable, but if you look at the no call outs spots on the leaderboard, something doesn’t look right. A little similar, don’t you think?

#82

Well, here’s what I see today.

I’m going to assume it’s not a callout if I refer to them by number. Seriously, all of this information is right there on the leaderboard so I can’t imagine using it is any kind of callout.

There’s a pretty big gulf between #1 and #2. 21,676 points of difference as of the moment I started typing. Their records are 1,715-16 and 1,807-86, respectively. So, fascinating: 2nd place has played 162 matches fewer than first place, but has so many fewer points! How?

Well, I did the math. I’ve attached an image that shows my work. But here’s what I found.

At my base 0.75m per game estimate, #1 has played for 21 hours and #2 has played for about 24 hours. Well within human bounds over 3 days: an average of 6.1 or 6.7 hours, respectively. When we calculate up the points per match, something interesting happens.

#1 is averaging 64.2 points per win. #2 is averaging 48.9. So #1 is making about 25% more points per game than #2. That explains why #2, with only about 5% more wins than #1, can have a dramatically lower score: they either haven’t optimized themselves to be getting 60+ points per match or they’re intentionally shooting for 2 trophy or lower matches to try and fit more matches in per unit time.

I’m ignoring defense wins/losses, I don’t know how to put numbers on them.

The only thing that looks also odd to me is 2 players have an identical number of wins, but everything else about them is very different. And that one particular guild is dominating the top 5. The guild I don’t find so suspicious, I have a feeling getting 60+ points per win requires something of the guild itself. The same wins I only see as odd because I swear when I checked earlier this morning, these two STILL had the same wins. Hmm. Now I’m watching that.

#83

Just to update you all.
#1 on the PvP leaderboards was just banned on PC/mobile.

But yeah… Clearly I don’t know what I’m talking about. 🤦

#84

I never said it did.
I said it’s worth checking out the top 5 every week.
Which it is… And if they find all the cheaters. It’ll make way for all those that actually earn and deserve the Rewards legitly.

#85

I speak the truth. If you don’t like it. Then simply don’t read it. But me complaining on the forums doesn’t effect your game play in anyway. Cheaters do.

#86

Cheating constitutes as cheating. Perhaps instead of looking for ways to attack me. You’ll pay more attention to other players and suspicious behavior. You used to be a big proponent of doing things the right way. But yet it doesn’t seem to bother you that people are cheating on the PvP leaderboards. That’s unfortunate.

#87

I don’t report a player unless I’m 99% sure they’re cheating. At least 80% of the players I’ve reported have been banned. I fear if I report the top 5 every week then that will dilute my reports. So all I’m asking is for the top 5 to be automatically reviewed. It should be worth mentioning that the player who was just banned was reported by me 4 months ago. I let it go thinking he must of been legit. But now I feel like he was looked into, but just not caught at the time. I don’t feel it’d be a good use of either of our time for me to constantly report the same players over and over.
Automatic testing of the top 5 every week does take time away from you devs. But if this week is why indication… It’s surely worth it. I don’t care if I’m alone on this. If I decide one week to make a run at #1 again. I want to make sure I’m playing by the same rules as everyone else that I’m competing against. It is player vs player… Not player vs cheaters.

#88

Does anyone keep track of how often someone disappears from the top 10 like apparently just happened?

Edit: anyone outside Melbourne, that is.

#89

Just to hear you (read you) correctly. It’s okay for you to complain about people who follow the rules but not in a way that you think you should? Ala account sharing. But I shouldn’t complain about cheaters.
You are against their policy to allow account sharing, but I shouldn’t suggest that they add to their policy against cheaters… automatic review of the top 5 every week in PvP.
Comparing anything to do with a video game to slavery displays how much you truly are the one that needs mental help.

#90

I was told in global chat. Otherwise I just check at the end of the week for players if I reported them that week.

#91

I don’t try to compete in top PvP, however I’m not sure why all thed negative reply towards the original idea. I think everyone should be ok with the top 5 being checked. If no ones found to be cheating it’s no big deal, but if one is caught, even every once in a while, then to me it’s worth it

#92

Not to step on any toes… But complaining about someones complaints seems to be the new hobby of 2018.

#93

Not at all. But instead trying to invoke a standard that allows players like you… Who I assume are playing legitly… Are able to finish in the top 5 instead of the top 10. If any of the players ahead of you aren’t doing it legitly.

#94

No one is taking away your right to complain, but the devs already stated at lenght how they are constantly working against cheaters despite your incessant rant fueled by your personnal issues…

Being at the top 5 does not make them automatically cheaters, every effort the devs would use in this sense could be in vain if all top five players are legit REGARDING THE USE OF EXTERNAL TOOLS/SOFTWARES/HACKS, but they could be sharing their accounts and therefore triggering your paranoia constantly. If the devs address the account sharing i’m very positive it would present a fairer experience for any player who wants to compete in the leaderboards.

I understand this personnal attack, suggesting you should seek professional help sounded like a insult instead of real concern, therefore you are trying to “insult” me in the same way just because i dared to mention something that is historically true which is faced as a shameful taboo that no one should speak of… My point stands, still today there are practices/traditions in many parts of the world that are considered allowed/legal, but that doesn’t means they are fair.

#95

OK let’s try and steer this in a productive direction.

What exactly are your criteria for “fishy”, @awryan? I say this from a place of good faith, if I question a number it is only because I want to understand your reasoning for the math. Now I’m curious because you were right, and I’d rather learn from this than try to pretend reality is not what it is.

I’ve obviously been crunching numbers several times in this thread. I’m looking at 1 and 2 right now and I’m kind of inspired to make a tool to crunch the numbers quicker, as I already know a handful of the useful calculations. Here’s my guess: it was PvP points, wasn’t it? Maybe combined with the time spent?

Current #1 and #2 are averaging roughly 49 PvP points per win. It makes sense their numbers would be super close: #1-#4 are all the same guild. Time spent is much more reasonable, too: roughly 6.4 hours daily. These are numbers I could reach on the right kind of week.

60 PvP points didn’t seem “unreasonable” to me, but I was using bad memory and assuming there was some trick. Now I’m interested what the bounds of PvP points really are.

That’s why I’m asking, really. It stinks and leads to bad things that you’re about the only guy who brings up these issues. If you’ve got some knowledge/intuition of what legit play “looks like”, you may as well share it. It’ll probably lead to some callout posts and false alarms from people who do bad math with good intentions, but it could also lead to a lot of people figuring out if the devs are doing a good job at catching them.

I still stick with my old points because I still believe them in the right context, but if we could get some other players deputized to this cause it’d do a lot to stop making you stick out as “that guy who thinks everyone is cheating”.

#96

I questioned someone that a seemingly high points per match once. My second account is level 500 something, in a guild that is ranked 960ish, He gets a LOT more points then my level 1388 guy in the #47 ranked guild. The lower level guilds get more points for whatever reason. My low level guy is averaging 69 points per match for all 3 trophy fights.

#97

#1 on PvP was banned in the last 12 hours.
And yet trolls are still trying to argue that I’m wrong for wanting automatic review of the top 5.
You have got to be kidding me. 🤦

#98

I will say it in less words, since your time is valuable:

What is your criteria for “fishy”? If you’d divulge this other people could help you out. If there’s an objective way to determine someone shouldn’t be doing so well, share it.

Keep dodging the question and I’m going to stick to my original opinion. Even a broken clock is right twice per day, or more depending on frame of reference.

#99

I’m not responding because you want attention. Not answers. I’ve stopped reading your posts for the most part. Just because you insist on commenting on every thread. Does not mean I have to give you attention.

My way to identify cheaters is just like the devs. It’s better left undisclosed.

Since you cleary didn’t get the hint. You’re included in the posts that are a waste of time to read.

#100

Got it. You don’t actually care about people finding cheaters. You care about:

1. Casting suspicion on people who are placing better than you.
2. Being the one who is right at all times.

I wonder how many cheating reports you file are for people who don’t get banned?