BACKUP talent working too good


#1

yes, because obviously it isn’t a good idea to have a new Bandit summoned when a Bandit dies. Certainly not with a chance of 50%.
It feels like TDS all over again. I just had to kill 12 troops instead of 4 (or what should have been max 8 in my opinion).


#2

I have faced the Bandit Hordes myself. They are nefarious and multiply like rabbits.


#3

Totally agree, is annoying, should have a limit or should be reduced to 25%.


#4

It would be smart for them to have it start at 50%, and then go down by 5% every time it get triggered. So the first time you have a 50% chance, the second time a 45% chance, and so on. There would still be times when it could span a hoard, so the gamble is still there, but it would make it happen significantly less than it does now.


#5

Any chance of getting a summon breaker built into the game? I just had a game with 6 bandit summons :triumph:. It’s too much. Would be nice if people could stop picking that talent but I know that will never happen.


#6

This week, in particular, I could see people choosing the talent intentionally. All those bandits are worth snotstones, and while they are numerous they aren’t a threat for the most part.


#7

I get this justification for it but on offense I hate it too.

GoW is about attrition as much as strategy. Part of why Divines works is it has somewhat beefy stats that get bolstered by a hero with Dawnbringer and Barrier talents. Divines wins because it’s likely by the time two of your troops die, the opponent is only one ability cast away from losing.

Other teams are way worse at an attrition game. Their strategy is “you will be dead by the time one of my troops die”. These days a lot of my not-Divines teams usually lose one troop towards the end of the game, but by that phase I can afford it. On the other hand, if Megavore or something else gets a troop early, they tend to be unable to recover.

“Summon on death” makes that worse. Bandit isn’t exactly the most powerful troop, but it’s a new meat shield you have to deal with before you get to that smug hero who is summoning them. And when that hero’s hiding underneath a death-over-time threat like Famine, and also barriering itself with Dawnbringer, you’ve got a really major problem.

It’s not “broken”, so I can’t strongly support a nerf. But it does slow down PvP, and I like quick + explosive PvP instead. While an occasional tough match that takes some thinking to win is nice to break the pattern, this isn’t “tough” in the way that teases my brain. It’s “tough” in the way that if the dice fall the wrong way everything I kill will be replaced with a new, full-HP version of itself.

And after a year of play I’ve seen the most ridiculous implementations of that. One time I lost a match with 18 event gems. I mean, yay event gems, but losing doesn’t feel good and it was a grueling match. I’ve seen IK resurrect 4 or 5 times in a row. Heck, one time my Ubastet hit an IK, killed it, hit the resurrected IK, killed it, then did the “kill a troop since a troop died” kill on it and it resurrected. Then I killed it with Infernus and it resurrected. It’s a funny story, but I’d have been really salty if it happened in an event with a sigil on the line. And nothing stops it from happening there.


#8

Actually OK let me suffix that with a better point.

It’s a “good” defensive tactic. It’s not a “broken” defensive tactic. But it’s not a “fun” defense to face. That can be important.

For example, in Magic: the Gathering’s Modern format, there is a strategy called Infect that is quite effective. Creatures with Infect don’t do damage, they apply -1/-1 poison counters instead with a special rule: while players have 20 HP, a player with 10 poison counters loses the game. One problem: nothing in the game can remove a poison counter. So the Infect deck revolves around being able to disrupt a player’s ability to block, buffing the damage of creatures, and applying 10 damage in one turn. This is particularly effective because normal game mechanics allow easy block disruption “because healing is a widespread mechanic to deal with taking damage”. But healing won’t save you from poison counters.

In a tournament context, it’s not broken. It’s only about an A-level deck and the S-Rank decks can tear it to shreds. The S-Rank decks also measure their worth in the thousands of dollars while Infect’s only a few hundred bucks.

So in non-tournament MtG contexts, it is generally agreed people don’t even bring Infect decks or those superpowered tournament decks. They aren’t fun. People want to throw the B-rank decks and brews at each other, because those are the decks people haven’t seen played hundreds of times on streams and built actuarial models around win rates. Sometimes someone will say, “Hey, I want to see what this deck does against Infect”. But for the most part everyone knows what happens.

That’s the “effective” vs. “fun” balance. Something doesn’t need a nerf to be discouraged. Considering I have to play ~30 PvP matches ASAP Monday, and high-end guilds require trophies, and GW itself is 30 mandatory PvP matches, “not fun” strategies have a big impact.


#9

To be honest, I don’t mind it, but this may be due to the fact that I have an abnormal play style:

I avoid most meta teams and rarely use them, myself. So, if I do face a Bandit (or any other Talent Summoner) team, it’s usually “weak sauce” and not much of a bother. They can also be nice on weeks like this one. Nothing wrong with getting a couple extra green stones for a little extra effort (at least the way I do it).

On the flip side of this, I like to use the Talent, myself. For the record, by “use the Talent, myself”, I don’t mean: Make a Meta team and use that trait on my PVP Defense to be a jerk. No, i mean I more use it in other game modes, like Invasion.

This week is a good example of this. I’m using a Hero Weapon that buffs life and attack to other troops. And, as we all know, Invasion stats can be a pain at the higher levels. So, when the time comes where Towers inevitably Skull Slam my troops into dust, it’s nice to now that I might be able to summon something to help out via a Talent. Especially, when not every Kingdom (Raids) or Troop Type (Invasions) has a Summoner. So, it’s nice when my Hero can fill that role while still using a non-summoning weapon.


#10

I think this could easily be changed to “give your allies '50% chance to summon a bandit/whatever on death”, so similar to in delves it would just apply as an additional trait at the start of a battle. This would mean you wouldn’t get the infinite summoning, so hopefully less frustrating, but you couldn’t stop it by stunning just one troop (the hero) so a little bit added so not so much weaker.

The delves show they have the code to do this so it’s not a massive programming undertaking.


#11

I’ve never had this happen, for me :worried: :thinking: In my experience, if Ubastet kills the last remaining troop, which is then resurrected, neither the second Uba-hit or the insta-kill trigger. I remember, because I was hoping it did, but maybe I need to go re-check :thinking:.

Edit: also, yeah, Bandits can be ridiculous. I like the decreasing chance idea! :slightly_smiling_face:


#12

It was a bug that lasted a long time. The most useful application was Drake Rider. Ubastet could hit a rider and kill the drake it summoned. It was really useful if you were just trying to grind out PvP, not fight a war of attrition vs. 8 enemies that regenerated armor every time you sneezed.


#13

Ah, ty :slightly_smiling_face:

Try anti-histamines! :slightly_smiling_face:


#14

Boy is this talent broken beyond belief. There is absolutely no reason that Bandits should trigger more Bandits. It’s one thing to have Bandits trigger on your starting troops (or other summoned troops). But when they trigger off themselves, it’s sometimes impossible to break through and the only reason the other team “wins” is because of RNG.


#15

It’s real cute when Ubastet kills 2 bandits and they are immediately replaced by other bandits.


#16

Well, at the Tower of Doom this talent worked well for me too at least, at higher levels any skull match was generating Bandits for me and give me time to gather mana and summon anything better if they didn’t “ressurrected”.


#17

I’d be okay with Bandits not summoning more Bandits (except for any Bandits you bring into battle).


#18

Interestingly, they don’t, so you got your wish! The hero’s talent summons the bandit. Kill the hero.


#19

I think the talent gets annoying when combined with the stealth one.
If you can’t target the hero, and he hides behind rows of bandits, it becomes harder. Add a way to submerge him and you are in a hard place!


#20

I just died to this! endless bandits LOL … I say keep it . Its ridiculous but so are a lot of other things in this game.