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As Requested by a Dev: A Thread about Devs' Actions/Inactions

Agreed. It’s not an ideal situation for the F2P players.

That is indeed what pretty much every player expressing him/herself in these forums is conveying, in one way or another.

Most of us went through a stage when we were enamored with the mere existence of GoW, after being beaten up by other predatory gatcha games: some of us took years to start noticing the company’s trends (particularly noticeable once Sirrian left the forum/building), and the patterns both in the company’s philosophy, QA, and their treatment of customers.

And while it’s surely healthy for the community to have new batches of players who are still in that ‘honeymoon’ stage, the documented history in these forums/threads of what the company has done, failed to do, and its interactions with customers, is something that can help new customers better evaluate how much they want to inve$t themselves into this journey.

Even if it tends to be highlighted by ‘jaded’ players, who are still playing for whatever personal reason they may have.
:blush: :vulcan_salute:

On the counter part, me and you dont torture ourselves with 100s of hours doing the Campaigns. I rather take the wait. I am sure you do take the wait too.

Warning, massive soap box rant commencing!

I play gems with the philosophy that I will be playing gems for a longtime. By longtime, that could be till the devs turn the servers off or just a year or two from now, who knows. It’s not normal for most people to play one game for years on end. I once mentioned burnout being healthy, but what I meant by that is, it’s normal for a player to quit a game and come back in a few months, a year, or not at all. I may be a F2P player but I consider myself a high level one.

I do a minimum of 1,100 trophies a week(our guilds reqs since 4.7) and have been at that pace since I moved over to the mobile platform from xbox. For me, that isn’t hard at all to do. I never feel like i’m grinding since the teams I use for pvp and explore are fast, effective and enjoyable. I play all events except class and arena events. I really don’t mind the campaign at all. I’m done with it on Tuesday morning at the latest and no task is too difficult or annoying. Even the treasure hunt and arena ones are super easy and not time consuming. The game has only gotten faster for me as I’ve leveled up and added stat boosts. Faster = fun. I play a lot of other games and genres from RPG, to sports games, to other more predatory gachas like Marvel Strike Force. Gems is still super F2P comparatively, I don’t care what anyone here says.

We are at an interesting time in the Gems life cycle. Many of the updates have geared toward making the game developers money. I won’t deny that. But from a purely F2P viewpoint I have to ask myself if it affects my progression, my gameplay, or the meta. Not one of these updates has made me think pay to win. It’s shocking when players use that term loosely when it doesn’t apply to this game. Of all the offers and deals this game has been updated with, none of them are in your face yet and all are optional. In the end any F2P has to understand this is a F2P game so the devs and publisher have to make money. Striking the right balance is the key to not alienating either side of this argument. Let’s take a look at what I mean.


General Shop
F2P view: You can get some event keys and the new troop for glory. The rest are just resources you can farm. I consider the fact you can get a mythic after 30 days from a pack fair. If players want to spend money on the bad deal packs I say let them.
P2W view: You can get some resources to speed your progress and you can even buy a path to glory for a new mythic. You don’t get to pick the mythic of course, but you do get one you don’t own. This is fair. Most deals here are pretty terrible and can be ignored by even the spenders.

F2P view: Can view them for some minor rewards, or ignore them. After a few days I stopped even noticing the Ad icon.
P2W view: Same as F2P here. No advantage

F2P view: The rewards are terrible except for some nice book of deeds. The stat boost is what I play for. I really love the boosts and that makes the whole campaign worth it. I know many disagree, but this goes to my point of faster = fun. Missing the mythic/weapons/pets is a bummer but I will eventually be able to get all of them. They aren’t pay walled and that’s what matters to me most.
P2W view: Rewards outside of mythic/weapon/pets are pretty bad to be honest. But again, the mythic/weapon/pets make buying the pass worth it. It’s a great deal and I’ll continue to say that unless they make some crazy changes. If you are a spender, you are silly not to get the elite pass.

Daily Offers
F2P view: Since these costs gems and not real money it makes some of them worth the purchase. Although playing in a high end guild will nab you most of the pets/orbs overtime, this can cut that time down including some rare imperial deed over. Personally I Ignore the offers completely and don’t feel I’m missing out.
P2W view: These offers could be even better for a P2W player who has a massive gem stash. An extreme endgamer might have to wait around for the rare deed offers but they can scoop them up when they do come out.

Arena Offers:
F2P view: Pretty much the same as above but you play a 5-7 minute arena match to get a reduced deal. If you are into offers or are into arena, this isn’t a bad setup. Again, I ignore arena and the offers so this doesn’t bother me at all.
P2W view: If you are into offers and don’t mind playing arena for 5 minutes(only 5 battles with a higher VIP) than this is a nice added bonus to the daily offers. Again, it’s those imperial offers that are probably the targets, but it could be worth the time if that’s the goal.

New Shrine:
F2P view: Can be ignored like the Ad or daily offer icon are. As an end gamer myself I don’t see much value in them unless they start offering book of deeds at a low cost. Even then I’d be ok since at least then a P2W will have something worth buying.
P2W view: If the current shrine offers are the standard offers(we don’t know for sure yet), than I’d say it’s probably a pass unless they are a few major ascensions away from a final power orb.

Event Shops:
F2P view: I can afford all events up to the weapon tiers as an active player. Activity and frequent logins are essential for having enough gems to cover the costs of faction/new factions/raid/tower/invasion/GW sentinels/world event/bounty without missing. I’m able to do this along with many others in our network in the same boat. Casual F2P will not be able to do this but that makes sense they can’t. F2P also won’t be able to grab the power orbs from the LB unless they save a lot for that one big run, and will most likely won’t have enough gems to do both weekend and tuesday pure faction runs until their hoard is much higher.
P2W view: Can buy as many tiers as they need to help the guilds reach their milestones faster. On tower weeks they can buy extra tiers to get scrolls. Also allows you to complete pure factions easier since they can buy their way to 2500 on tuesday/weekend events with potions. They will also be able to make some LB runs for power orbs.

Misc Gem Sinks(Pets)
F2P view: As a completionist I love cosmetic pet rescues! I max all new and old cosmetic pets. I still have enough saved for all the other events. Again, this comes down to activity and frequent logins. Many can’t do this, but time and effort are rewarded here. This is completely optional, but very possible.
P2W view: You can essentially make sure you are never pet blocked on kingdom power by buying all the pets you need whether cosmetic or not. I’d consider a normal pet a bad deal, but cosmetics aren’t a bad purchase for a large gem stash or end gamer.

F2P view: i dont see warbands as issue. Sure I would love to get everything unlocked without war coins but as long as they hit the AB occasionally and are in offers somewhat regularly im ok with that.
P2W view: unless you are a very new player you probably won’t have to worry about the warbands and I wouldn’t go out of my way to buy war coins other than a daily offer.

As a F2P player, none of these updates or shops affects my progression, my gameplay, or the meta. I can still play pvp and explore to my hearts content. I can breeze through events no matter the restrictions. I’ve completed all delves to 500 and only pure is left on some but I’ll get around to it eventually. My brother and I are consistently in the top 4 of our guild for GW in a bracket 5 guild(formerly bracket 3 cause we bombed last GW lol). Everything I got I earned and I don’t feel I’m addicted or it was a waste. I help run one of the largest networks in the game and that is my main focus and drive. If I were playing alone, i’d probably have quit and moved on a long time ago.

Just because the developers have decided 2020 is the year of monetization updates, doesn’t mean it’s P2W updates. Does it concern me that it seems to be their main focus? Yes, of course it does, just like everyone else. Players complain there is too much to do, and then there is not enough to do, and if new things are added(world events) or changed(arena) it’s not the way they wanted. Gems isn’t going to reinvent the core gameplay. if you don’t like gems now, you probably won’t like gems several updates from now and setting any sort of expectations will be a recipe for disappointment.

A GoW roadmap would go a long way in restoring some good faith with the community. I understand a public roadmap set’s expectations a team may not be able to deliver but transparency is important. Even if this comes in the form of bi-weekly or monthly updates on development, it would be better than what we currently get. They have a beta server, but don’t even listen to their beta testers feedback. If the devs care at all about the future success of gems, this well established community(including the network discords), they would reach out to us and create some sort of meaningful dialogue. It’s been Devs Vs. Players for far too long and hopefully that will change as we head into 2021. Either way I’ll be playing, so no update will bother me, but I know that isn’t the case for most players, and that’s what concerns me.

TL;DR: Gems is still not P2W, and until it is, I don’t see much issue with the updates. Let’s hope 2021 updates turn out a little better. There needs to be a more constructive dev/player dialogue cause we are at a crossroads.


I cannot adequately express how FURIOUS it makes me that every single day I play shitty arena and check my daily offers without getting imperial deeds. I have had four in total since the daily deals were introduced (none from arena at all even though I hate that mode) while others are now at about a dozen. It really is appalling company policy to piss off their paying customers every. Single. Day.

And also my main gripe is that nothing (seemingly, since nothing is every communicated by our communication „ninja“) is done to address this issue.


I see, I was so sure you just skipped Campaign.

Consider yourself lucky as I have only received the Imperial Deed offer once! Yes…ONCE! More RNG bs. I have all hero classes maxed, all kingdoms maxed (at least, as far as they can be), and all delves maxed and I am repeatedly offered crap for the offers.


I know both you and @MagiBelgr will both disagree and hate me for saying this, but im glad they are rare. Their rarity means you can’t fly that far past a player like myself. Same reason I have no issue with the mythic drop rate. Time gating is equal for all player thus leveling the playing field in my opinion. If imperial deeds dropped daily, you’d have extreme end gamers maxing kingdoms quickly and creating a larger gap between the haves and have not.

Just more evidence that gems is a game that can only really be played and not be completed, no matter how hard some try lol.

Im fine with being rare. I’m NOT fine with being random and unfair.


Community ninja here to say that it is a matter of RNG. I don’t believe that the liklihood of getting the Imperial Deed offer will change, and I’m sorry that this isn’t the news you want to hear.

It is rare and down to RNG, much like the way getting a Legendary or Mythic troop is.


Well since we are on the topic, it would be marvellous if we could actually have someone acknowledge that the devs are aware that at the current deed/writ drop rates it will take us decades to get kingdoms to level 20, and that this is indeed intended. Last time the question of how long it should take was fobbed off with „that will obviously vary depending on your account“.

And on the matter of RNG, if we end up with such skewed numbers (1 deed vs 10+) that do not even out over many months then there is quite obviously something wrong with RNG. But wait, i feel like this point has already been raised…

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Indeed: while the shortcomings in communication are well documented, despite pseudo-justifications brought forward by company representatives periodically (e.g. see absolute silence on the Pet Gnomes in Arena issue, until it was ‘miraculously’ fixed), if we look at historical patterns in the forum, we can all likely agree that it has been a generally less inflammatory channel for a couple of months now, than in the past couple of years.

Whether it is due to a reshuffling of staff duties so those with more adequate soft-skills are interacting in the forum, or the stonewalling approach ( Milk, Bones, & Muscles - A Sincere Letter to the Devs ) that many of us have become accustomed to in smaller selective bites by company representatives through the years, we can argue that being ignored is preferable over being lied to or patronized.

Far from optimal, no doubt, but likely preferable over the environment we had e.g. in July, when the company was ‘generously’ handling the Kurandara in chests issue.

Maybe what the forum needs is for somebody like Lyrian, Lyya, or Mithran to be conveying info to the players (meanwhile, company representatives can continue ‘reading and collating feedback’, as they allegedly currently do), while having the space to say “they won’t tell me that information” or “the information they gave me was inaccurate”: all parties would benefit if the communication shortcomings documented over the years could finally be resolved, instead of seeking new ways to dodge them.
:stuck_out_tongue: :blush: :vulcan_salute:

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It’s not quite the same, there’s only a very low fixed number of attempts at an Imperial Deed each day. While this might seem like a minor detail it actually means the whole world to quite a few players.

One of the key factors in online games is progression, especially progression compared to other players you know. Kingdoms are a major part of that progression, the limiting factor currently being Imperial Deeds. Players would like to work towards progressing, which means earning Imperial Deeds. They can’t, because there’s no clear path, just three extra dice roll each day that have a very low chance to succeed. And if your dice happen to keep falling much more unfavorably than those of others players you tend to end up frustrated. Because no matter how much effort you spend, the game apparently just doesn’t want to treat you, personally, in a fair way.

I believe if you were to change offers from random to some fixed rotation or some same for everybody approach you’d get a lot of complaints off your back, while still not handing out more Imperial Deeds than you do now. Seems to have worked for the Adventure Board.

I’d also appreciate if the community ninjas would come out of hiding a little more often.


Community ninjas stopped coming out on a regular basis because a lot of the users here don’t know how to communicate like normal human beings and are always verbally attacking them.


I don’t condone personal attacks at all, however, maybe a little self reflection would go a long way. Criticism is not the same as an attack, and at least imho the ninjas are simply not doing a good job. Sometimes communication is about how you say things. Most of the time it is just about saying something fullstop. Keeping people informed. What we are seeing here is lovingly referred to as the mushroom policy. Feed em poo*, keep them in the dark.

*in Australia it’s something else but I have learnt on here that apparently some people find that term offensive


I know the developers deserve criticism sometimes but a lot of it here are just outright personal attacks with a huge swath of passive aggressive jabs sprinkled all over the place. I don’t blame the developers for only popping In once in a while.

It’s not about blame. Of course it’s understandable. I suppose the criticism here is that turning your back on communication is not the right way to handle the problem, and turning your back on the community at large because of what can only be a minority is not what we deserve either. Incidentally it goes both ways too. I have been mocked by Salty and was on the receiving end of jabs, so as suggested above, maybe how is the time to draw a line and start fresh.

Yeah maybe. All I’m saying is the devs do not deserve most of the crap that was thrown at them. If you have a problem with the game then the best way to show them is voting with your wallet. I seen people here go as far as calling them criminals that should be locked up. Hell, this very thread was created with the sole purpose of insinuating they were incompetent. The only good that came out of this thread is me knowing exactly who all the hypocrites are who claim to hate this game yet still play it religiously on a regular basis.

Ok so let’s have a look at this response for example.
What you have done here is tie a ribbon around „Guess you‘re unlucky! Suck it up. Psych!“

Let’s look at specifics:

„It’s a matter of RNG“ - that’s not helping. I know it’s a matter of RNG, that’s exactly my point. The complaints about RNG you get ALL THE TIME are basically that humans with feelings get very frustrated with some of these streaks. Yea it is mathematically entirely possible and (probably) neither rigged nor broken. But, you would get a lot of complaints off your back if you tweak your RNG to be less streaky. The „luck“ does not offset the feeling of disappointment.

„I don’t believe that the likelihood of getting IDs will change and I’m sorry if that’s not what you want to hear“ - please stop using the platitude of „I’m sorry“, you use it all the time and it adds nothing. A much more constructive approach would be to acknowledge the problem, and provide specifics, e.g. „the current rate of obtaining IDs is intentionally low at approximately one deed per month. I understand that you feel random offers are unfair and will table for the team to discuss whether there might be more equitable ways to obtain these in future. „

Just my two cents of what I would LIKE from someone who is meant to act as a go-between between me and my feelings (yes, this is all about the feelings of your players) and the devs.

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