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As Requested by a Dev: A Thread about Devs' Actions/Inactions

It is better late than never. I think perhaps moving forward, there should either be more QA testing, or a standard backup plan for compensation.

It probably should be standard to either:

A) Give a random or even unowned troop (if possible) of the same rarity.

B) Give an equal amount of soulforge crafting materials.

It has to be understood the communication error of not only making it seem the 2 VIP keys were the only compensation, but generous was a snafu.

If QA can’t improve to catch these constant, reoccurring bugs and issues, then the customer support could use better bedside manner and timing.

“We had an error in the weekly reset where X was available to pull in chests and was not supposed to be available yet. As a result, we have removed it from the given player collections, gave out a small reward apology, and are working on a replacement for the mishap of the affected players. Please contact us if you were an affected player.”

Compared to:

One edit for saying that the missing mythic pull would be replaced properly goes a long way. As it was worded, the keys were the compensation or at least the only significant compensation.

2 Likes

Okay, so… just reread both statements about a dozen times:

here and here

Now, I could sit here and write a literal essay picking these apart line by line to back up why the initial statement was reacted to as it was, but I think I’ll save everyone the trouble. There were multiple opportunities given to clarify or add to the initial statement (see the post immediately following the first one, for example, and the response to that one), which were just to dig in to the initial position and post information about troop drops.

There are basically only two logical ways to reconcile both these statements. Lets not make this personal, since I’ve seen this situation crop up more than once with different actors in different parts, so to speak, so lets just say:

  1. The initial statement was made in error and was a misunderstanding on the part of the person that communicated it, with the actual “official stance” being different than what was communicated and the second statement was a clarification of such
  2. The initial statement was intended to be the official position and the second statement marked a change in position, while brushing it off as a misunderstanding, effectively throwing the person who made the first statement under the bus while deflecting some blame onto the readers of the statement for not understanding it.

(To be clear, this was not the case of us misunderstanding what was to happen and overreacting. There is very clear language to why it was interpreted the way it was.)

So, lets briefly go over why each of these is bad.

The first scenario is bad because the statement was communicated by dev while using “certain” language. Devs communicating information on the forums speak from, by default unless otherwise proven wrong (and the burden of proof is very high here) with absolute authority on a subject. There was nothing to contradict said authority in this situation. It is understandable to want to get a statement out there, but if a situation is uncertain to the dev communicating it, you need to use uncertain language. “I think”, “I believe”, “we are discussing it”, “I will check with the team” (but actually do and actually follow up) are good ones here. If you are speaking from a position of absolute authority with no way to contradict what you are saying and you also speak with absolute certainty, what you are communicating is going to be taken as fact and reacted to as such. If you are then later contradicted, this erodes player trust.

The second scenario is bad for a number of reasons. In this scenario, remember, it wasn’t the course of action that we were already on, it was damage control, which makes the second statement disingenuous. While landing on the “correct” solution is nice, as has been stated, this should have been the default. It also means to deflect blame on this “misunderstanding” by implying that we should have somehow taken the meaning that the stated compensation was not meant to be final from the initial statement which overtly stating “once the compensation finishes rolling out the matter will be considered closed” and “this is the final compensation for the issue”. The second statement also directly contradicts the first one by stating “We sent the 2 keys out ASAP, then waited until more people were online today to continue discussing the compensation” which is the opposite of “this is the final compensation for the issue”. Even though we landed where we were supposed to, it still feels like we are not getting told the truth. This erodes player trust.

Hindsight really is 20/20 here, but even if this followed the same progression with different things communicated we should have had:

  1. Troops are removed and compensation discussion begins internally. It is posted on the forums compensation is being discussed at the time this happens, no compensation is sent out yet since apparently you need a day to discuss what it should be and you don’t want to give anybody the wrong impression
  2. After discussion (and maybe feedback on the forums), and we land on the correct solution of just replacing the removed troops with random troops in the same rarity (the same thing that happened with similar errors in the past)
  3. Since this was a hot-button issue and an example of the same error being made countless times and the fact that it took a day to receive any compensation, send out the 2 VIP keys per incorrect pull to smooth things over.

(Had we somehow ended on 2 VIP keys per incorrect pull as the final compensation, we’d be back in the same situation we find ourselves in now, so this assumes the decision to do the right thing was not just outrage based but rather “needed time to discuss” per the second statement)

We’d have ended in the exact same place, same “cost” to you, with a much higher satisfaction ratio. Right now I still feel icky over the whole situation and likely will for a while, just like every other time something similar had happened, even though we got an objectively favorable outcome. It makes it feel not good to engage with positive discussions on the forums, to even slightly annoyed I am reminded of this whole debacle (and by proxy, all the past ones) when I get a notification. And I can’t be the only one here.

This article isn’t completely applicable here because of the nature of the service being provided, but it still provides some salient points to the matter at hand:

Please do better.

11 Likes

This. Very much this.

For a company that is so focused on monetisation, it is amazing that they still do not realize how much money they are losing when staff, who may excel in certain duties but who do not necessarily have the required soft skills to interact with customers (as abundantly documented), are allowed to taint the company’s image through recurrent faux-pas.

Before the Dev Tracker tab mysteriously disappeared from my tabs yesterday, it showed that Sirrian hasn’t logged on in a couple of months, so some additional supervision may be advisable, moving forward.

:face_with_monocle: :crossed_fingers: :vulcan_salute:

3 Likes

@AMT I’ve spoken to Sirrian, who is checking the forums from home, but not posting. As he isn’t posting he hasn’t been logging into his account, as it isn’t necessary. So yes, Sirrian has been frequenting the forums, but won’t have popped up in the Dev Tracker because he isn’t logging in.

For posterity, I have asked him to log in now, and he has done so. <3

3 Likes

One more update and one more time The deep king wrong spell description in the french version have not been corrected! (and Mershark troop as well btw…both with same mistake)

I stopped writing that in the Translation error masterthread as I already did that a few times since June 2019. I was expecting to deal with people able to think, tragic mistake from me.

The deep king (and Mershark troop too) deal TRUE splash damage and not normal splash damage.
Every troop that deal true damage in the english version have the word “true” written.
Guess what? its exactly the same in french! But the word is called “purs”…so Tina, khorvash, Euralyie,…etc…have all the word “purs” written in their spell description. Now go check Deep king and Mershark in french version, and you won’t see “purs” written in their spell description!

As I was fully aware that to correct this mistake was required 10 years of University, I also mentionned another mistake in the french translation: The 3 weapons of Xathenos have all 3 the name Xathenos written with a different spelling. I thought this mistake would be more accessible for the devs and french translator to understand…again big mistake from me!
Correct french name is Xathénos…one weapon have name Xathénos written correctly, the 2 other have written Xathenos (no accent on the “e”) and Xanéthos (“n” and “t” inverted).

Please, never ever fix that! Now after 14 months, its kinda entertaining to witness.

But I will repeat it again: all you gained with your incompetence is that now all mistakes in the french version that I find, I keep them for me. And be assured that they keep coming with regularity.

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An interesting coincidence happened last week, during the 24 hours of the Mythic fiasco whose handling by a company’s representative has been well-documented across the forum (and hopefully duly reviewed by the company’s leadership, to adopt any necessary measures to ensure they are represented by individuals with the required soft-skills in the future, thus avoiding any future lo$$es arising from the treatment of customers that we all witnessed): the Dev Tracker tab was there on Monday, but had gone missing by Tuesday (As Requested by a Dev: A Thread about Devs' Actions/Inactions).

A company representative has claimed that they “haven’t made any changes to the forum super recently, so I’m not sure when it was removed or if it was something Discourse changed at some point”

And also claimed that, in the past week, two particular devs have been “at least one of us have been reading the forum each day and making note of anything that needs to be passed onto the team”

And here we have a screenshot taken on Tuesday 27/JUL from https://community.gemsofwar.com/g/Developer :

Conjectures such as ‘how many of us log off our accounts to check the forums?’ aside, these facts/claims have become increasingly valuable to be duly documented after last week’s fiasco, since it would appear that the status quo is to remain, based on recent activity.

Coincidences are Improbable.
:face_with_monocle: :blush: :vulcan_salute:

I do login everyday, and you can even see that there. :frowning: I’m not sure what you’re getting at with that point, as I am here as often as I can be. (Sickness aside.)

Goldpheonix can also be seen logging in two hours prior, and he quietly reads the forums very frequently. That is already two regular visitors, outside of Kafka. I don’t see any contradiction in what she has said, as yes, we have been sick, and yes, a dev will regularly frequent this forum.

Not all of our developers are on the forums regularly, and nor should they be. They have other responsibilities, which is why we have a few people that gather data and feedback for them to save time and free up their mental load. It isn’t just the time spent on the forums that needs to be considered, there are also emotional side effects too. At times the forums can be very heated and taxing, and extra load on certain developers who need to focus their attentions at a higher level is never a good idea. That’s why we have a community and support team. Unfortunately, I don’t believe that expecting all of our developers to log in frequently is reasonable. It is fine if you feel otherwise, everyone has different opinions and expectations.

In regards to the dev tracker, this has not been purposefully removed. If we get some extra time I’ll see if one of our team can have a quick look into it.

4 Likes

Same issue in the italian version. The word “true” (“vero” in italian) is missing.
Same error in two different translations lead me to think that the error was in the file given to translators at some point…
Why hasn’t been addressed (as many other) is beyond me anyway.

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ahhh thats insane! and you would think that this Saltypatra would come here to answer to that! But no…absolutely not! Probably too busy she is for sulking like a 12 yo girl. Unable to answer me since 2 years, would you believe that! Thats with such kind of “person” I have to deal here despite me taking on my time to spot and report translation mistakes.

When a video game company enter the F2P, its safe to say that they reached the bottom. No way to go lower. For sure this person is making honour to that affirmation. They all are lucky at 505 and IP2 that F2P concept with lootbox is something still relatively new that allow them to navigate in a grey area. But you will see…soon the law will regulate all this circus much more severly and hopefully forbide it. Meanwhile they are lucky to not all be in jail.

I can feel the passion in your post but I could swear Gems of War has always been F2P, bro.

Gems of Wars has always been F2P.

No special passion in my post, just an analysis after 4+ years of studying the concept with this game.

A video game must have a fixed price at release and that F2P concept needs to be forbidden. And again, I have good hope it will be forbidden. Its hopefully just a question of time. I have no ideas how the companies that enter into this F2P thing can still look themselves in the mirror.

Of course this bs target the mobiles…the problem is that the infection have spread to consoles. Hard for me to understand how any true video game lover would not be worried about that evolution.

Note that all my post dont take in count the fact that there can be some fun playing a F2P like Gems. This is not relevant to the discussion. What I am talking about is the whole picture. But tbh with you, when I read your answer, I dont think you are able to have a clear view of this whole picture. No insult intended.

I get what you’re coming from but they are working within the confines of the law. To call them criminals just because you disagree with how they want to make money is pretty ridiculous.

Some laws retroactively punish :man_shrugging:

He’s saying gambling laws are being circumvented, and when this is remedied with future legislation the same actions being taken today will be considered crimes (meaning they should have been all along).

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I didnt call them criminals. I just said that they were lucky to not all be in jail actually. :wink: Internet appeared in the video games since mid 2000s and then came the F2P concept…all that very new without time for laws to adapt.
But things are slowly changing…

This is a pivotal element in the ‘was GoW always an f2p?’ debate: GoW used to be that ONE match-3 that we could recommend to lovers of the genre, a place where the game grew but not at the expense of player experience… money was given in exchange of more fun… design/updates were not about reaching for players’ wallets…

For those with the corresponding experience: GoW used to be the polar opposite of LGoH…

From that angle, GoW wasn’t always the standard f2p mould which they are so eager to become as of late… One of my guildies recently highlighted how the passion from the devs is no longer felt… Add to that the well-documented recurrent dodges, silences, misleads (and outright lies), and the treatment of customers by staff who should be doing support full-time instead of interacting with said customers (again, well-documented lack of soft-skills), and we no longer have that jewel of a match-3 that we could recommend to anyone as a long-term match-3 home. (we could go on about design, QA, language, consistency, balance… but trying to keep it short :blush: )

Just an alternative angle, that echoes a widespread sentiment.
:blush: :vulcan_salute:

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Yeah I’m on the ‘freedom of choice’ camp. The last thing I want is the government telling me what I can or cannot enjoy.

I understand this argument but unfortunately things are more complex than that. The world dont resume to just you and me.
There must be limits. For exemple its forbidden to drive at 200 km/h.
In video game world are also childrens and more fragile persons that needs to be protected.
A normal video game with a fixed release price have only the risk of playing it too much (addiction of time).
A F2P game have not only this risk but also the money spending in excess risk because of addiction.

A video game should only have the time addiction risk, not time and money. (well…no risks at all would be of course better lol)

Thats why the F2P game concept needs to be forbidden by the law.
No worries, it will only lead to an improvment of the general quality of the video games.

Also about freedom of choice, its not always true…its like if a smoker talk about the freedom of smoking…

…addiction cancel freedom.

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I disagree. If I want to buy something in a video game I should be able to. Let the developers put it out there as a choice. If it’s something that might not be suitable for kids then there should be controls by the industry to deal with it not controls made by the government. As for addiction, I think personal responsibility and accountability should play a role rather than just completely take away a choice. If I want it I should be able to have the choice to buy it. I should not be deprived of said choice because someone is not responsible enough to take control of their life. Taking away the choice to me is enabling such behavior.

There is no incentive for a company to self-regulate for the sake of children.

Without the government, there would still be children digging in coal mines.