Amount of sigils for new modes


#1

Some of our guild are complaining of lack of sigils for the new modes but surely we all receive the same amount. There is a leaderbord and reward structure so it would be completely unfair if some have more battles than others. Can someone please clarify because discontent with these modes is already breaking guilds.


#2

Everyone gets the same amount to start with. You can purchase more sigils (along with various other items) in the Raid or Invasion shop for gems.

Sigils are awarded on a somewhat random basis in battles. In each battle, there is a 25% chance that sigils will be available, but to earn them, you must defeat the Valraven before it escapes AND win the battle. In the final stage of Invasions, no Valravens appear (since there are always 4 towers in the battle), but each battle still has a 25% chance to award sigils as long as the player wins.

The 25% chance is modified if the player gets too lucky or too unlucky, but generally speaking, you should have an opportunity for 2 extra sigils on 25% of your battles.

So, the two things that have the largest influence on the number of battles are: 1. How many tiers you buy in the shop, and 2. Your performance in the battles where you have a chance to earn more sigils.


#3

Really good and informative explanation Stan, thankyou. I’m just pretty much stunned on why they would make it so luck reliant when almost everyone would like to compete on a level playing field.


#4

Yeah, i don’t know, except that everything in this game is very luck reliant. Most of the complaints I’ve heard are actually about how pay-to-win the modes are, since the best way to ensure you do well is to spend hundreds or thousands of gems to purchase lots of sigils. It’s tough right now for guilds to figure out how to approach these in a way that is fair, fun and rewarding for all members.


#5

In addition to what @Stan wrote… by keeping Valravens “luck based” and not publishing the official appearance rate (or having a fixed interval) they can always ninja edit the frequency if need arises, with no blowback.


#6

I think most competitive modes are “optimized” for 30-member fairly active guilds.

We know that it takes 5,250 total towers for a guild to get all rewards. That means each guild member needs to kill 175 towers in a 30-person guild. I’ve bought Tier III and killed 225 towers so far, so I’d argue it’s DEFINITELY doable for a 30-person guild because I’m well over the minimum. But I can’t make the numbers add up.

Here’s how I read the board in terms of sigils and tower kills:

  • 10 to get past the 0-tower matches.
  • 10 to get past the 1-tower matches. (+10 towers)
  • 10 to get past the 2-tower matches. (+20 towers)
  • 10 to get past the 3-tower matches. (+30 towers).

This means spending 40 sigils to amass your first 60 tower kills.

Now the rest is easy. We have 175 - 60 = 115 towers left to destroy, and we’ll destroy 4 per sigil. 115 / 4 = 28.75, so we need 29 more sigils. That means our total needed sigils is 40 + 29 = 69, if we don’t lose ANY matches.

How many can we count on for free? Well, we get 4 per day for free, so 4 * 7 = 28. But there are Valravens. These are hard to account for. Let’s say they show up at about a 25% rate, it seems to match my experience.

Fighting 28 sigils will give us 28 * .25 = 7 Valravens for 14 more sigils. Fighting those gives us 14 * .25 = 3.5 Valravens, we’ll call it 3. 6 sigils * .25 = 1.5, we’ll call it 1. So we really expect to get, for free, 28 + 14 + 6 + 2 = 40 sigils.

That’s enough to get us to the 4-tower stages, so we’ll need to buy the remaining 29 sigils. This is where I’m not sure how my math reconciles my progress.

I bought Tier III. (I’m dumb and it was Tier IV so all this math is wrong.) That’s 9 sigils. Let’s tack on the Valravens: 9 * .25 = 2. 4 * .25 = 1. So 9 + 4 + 2 = 15 sigils. So if I’m right, I should still be about 14 * 4 = 56 towers shy of 175.

Instead I’ve killed 225 towers with Tier III.

That’s my first 60 towers for 40 sigils. You can’t get around that. 165 remain. 165 / 4 = 41.25 and would imply I lost a round somewhere and didn’t get an even 4 kills. Further it implies I’ve spent somewhere around 80 sigils but there’s no way my math adds up to 80 sigils.

What am I doing wrong in my math? Because clearly I’m doing right by the towers.

Anyway, now I’m distracted. Can someone show me the real math so we can figure out what the minimum tier you need is, and what that costs?


#7

I’ll have to track my next raid and invasion more closely to help with math :thinking:

For now I can say that I bought Tier IV and I have lost 3 rounds where out of a possible 12 towers I could have killed I only killed 8 and currently I have 172 towers destroyed with 0 sigils remaining until reset tonight

Cheers
Calvin


#8

@Slypenslyde I also bought T4, I’m at 224 Towers Defeated, All Sigils used as of today, 0 Losses, 0 Valraven escapes (in early rounds).

I believe we need more information to make proper decisions, unfortunately I didn’t log the details as I progressed through the Stages.

EDIT: One more item @Slypenslyde if you did T3 with 225 Towers. I know I have had a absolutely perfect week thus far, I’ll assume similar for you. One of us was either VERY lucky, or VERY unlucky. So you might want to account for that in your estimation figures.


#9

I’m pretty sure Tier 3 will be more than 9 sigils, but am not at my console. It was about 4 or 5 per tier wasn’t it?


#10

I really can’t understand how the heck you destroyed that much towers buying only tier III…

I bought tier IV and lost only 2 battle and I only have destroy 212 towers and I am at tower level 117.

Tier IV gives 5 extra sigils so even If I lost 2 battle ( 1 tower short for each) there is no way you should have destroyed more towers by only buying tier III…

So far in this thread those who bought tier IV have similar towers destroyed.

You got really lucky or you didn’t read your shop screen information correctly…


#11

GOOD NEWS EVERYONE

I was up really late last night and can’t tell the difference between “III” and “IV”. So I bought Tier IV and it sounds like other people with that tier are within reasonable error margins of my score.

I did this all last week, I think it happens because I usually buy Tier III by default, then wait to see if the guild needs IV. But for reasons, I bought IV early this week.


#12

OK, so with tier IV we now see a lot of people are well above the minimum, let’s not waste time on the math.

OK. The part I got right is Tier III gives me 9 extra sigils, which translates to 15 total from Valravens. That’s just shy of the 29 we need. Where do we get an extra 14 sigils?

Well, let’s look at the guild. If every member buys up to Tier III, we’re still below what guild tasks give us back in terms of gems weekly. Tribute also gives you more if you can check it a lot. SOMEBODY in a 30-member, serious guild is out there thinking about Tier IV. If every member is 14 sigils shy, that’s 420 sigils (lol) we need to make up.

Tier IV grants 5 new sigils. With Valravens, that’s worth a probable 7 sigils and 28 towers. So: every guild member that buys Tier IV makes up for 2 guild members that don’t. There’s probably a fancy formula for that, but let’s brute force it.

We’re shy 420 (lol) sigils and that means we need 14 per member over 30 members. So if 15 people buy Tier IV, that’s 28 per and you reach the goal.

SO. One configuration for a guild to reach the last portal with PERFECT play, NO losses, is:

  • 15 players commit to Tier IV.
  • 15 players commit to Tier III.

There are lots of other configurations, and clearly if you have some Tier V and beyond purchasers they can bear a LOT of the burden.

So it’s safe to say there’s not a clear “minimum” tier a guild should have to purchase if the goal is “open every prize”. You definitely need every player to buy Tier III, but that’s not enough to finish if everyone does just the minimum. And it’s a bit much to expect players to win EVERY match.

The thing is, it’s really hard to say how many gems you get in a week. Sure, there’s the guild task rewards. But also consider tributes. If you average 4-5 gems/hour, you can easily rack up ~350 gems per week. Combine that with the task rewards and you can buy Tier IV with a teeny bit of profit.

But this is really bad news for smaller guilds, or guilds without 30 fairly active members. I think these events are NOT set up for those kinds of guilds to finish.

That said, the rewards for reaching tiers at and past 6 aren’t too shabby. I think it’s not true that “any clan should be able to reach them”, but it is worth talking about where the line might exist.


#13

Hahahha makes more sense now. Thx for the reply XD


#14

Also, I think you have to log in each day to get the 4 free sigils.


#15

Is this just speculation or confirmed? I’m just curious to pass along the info.


#17

I can confirm you do not need to log in each day to get the sigils. I’ve just logged onto my tablet account and had the whole weeks worth there waiting to be used. I barely play it and log in once or twice a week.


#18

My housemate logged in 1 hour before weekly reset (hasn’t played in weeks) to try the bounty because I told him he would have 12 sigils and should be able to get some rewards for free but he only had 4.